Talk of Lufkin

October 23, 2009 5:07 AM | Link to this

Congrats to Danny Vines! Maybe now, Lufkin will have a few extra jobs.

By wampus

October 23, 2009 5:14 AM | Link to this

I said months ago that a little “green grease” applied to the palms of a north Lufkin dentist and a couple others should slide the opposition away.

Of course the outrage and contempt by the vast majority of their North Lufkin neighbors regarding their interference probably helped.

By Texas Citizen

October 23, 2009 7:09 AM | Link to this

I bet a few North Lufkin instigators find some nice things to get with their new found wealth. I wonder how long it’s going to take their neighbors to figure that one out?

I still say North Lufkin needs to clean up it’s act. Congrats to Danny Vines for trying to build a business, but he should have never paid off the corrupt, and ACORN probably were the ones who forged those signatures?

By Old Timer

October 23, 2009 7:46 AM | Link to this

Don’t know if anyone was “paid off” so I won’t comment on that. But I really would like to know the “agreement” that was reached, and I’m curious as to WHY it remains a secret. Glad to see Mr Vines get some new industry and jobs going again.

October 23, 2009 9:30 AM | Link to this

It’s been my experience (although limited) that confidential agreements reached between opposing parties almost always reflects some sort of monetary exchange and the terms would shed a dim light on both parties. What other purpose is there in keeping it confidential, added controls certainly isn’t a measure worth hiding now is it?

I won’t say that I oppose the new jobs he will bring to town, but do question the ethics of such business practices. If both the business and the opposition conduct themselves in such a manner to hide things from the public now, exactly what may we expect when problems arise (and they most certainly will) in the future?

I’m with old timer, the secret part of this accord is probably the most pertinent, though unless it were known could not be weighed against the positive source of job opportunities.

By bob

October 23, 2009 10:29 AM | Link to this

Rather than be outraged over the assumption that there was a pay-off, I am ticked that a minor segment of the population is again allowed by the governmental process to shakedown a legitimate business. That’s an old trick perfected by Jessie Jackson, the “reverend” who never had a church or a congregation.

October 23, 2009 10:39 AM | Link to this

Bet the “dentist” is riding around north Lufkin in a brand new Cadillac or Lincoln before year’s end. Any takers?

By Wild Bill

October 23, 2009 10:39 AM | Link to this

I don’t see the ACORN and Jesse Jackson connections. Stick to the subject.

By Jackie

October 23, 2009 3:54 PM | Link to this

Texas Citizen…you said it! With Aspen being a public Corporation, the “secret deal” here is also considered public. This is the federal law, which holds credence to the act. In California they have a law called “The Brown Act”. This law covers that any and all public corporations and especially for any local, state government officiates holding secret, closed-door meetings, will be duly fined as a result and/or imprisonment could be justified. The upshot here means that any public entity cannot have secret meetings and dealings, whereby stockholders and the general public are bound from knowing all meeting minutes and issuances (deals made).

Interesting, so much “protesting” now simply ‘goes away’ all of a sudden and the petition now is dissolved.

Aspen just may go back to business as usual, because there could be a hidden clause therein which stated a similarity of a one-year hold on the boiler filtering, and if this prescription period lapses, the boilers remain as they were. Who the heck knows what was in the document?

IF monetary exchange was made…just go and drive by the homes of these “receivers” and see if there are new cars, boats, etc, in the driveways. This is the first thing “One Day Millionaire’s” do…go right out and buy a new car or something. The comenters know…the commenters know!

October 23, 2009 6:05 PM | Link to this

Like I said… just look for big ole’ Cadillac parked at the dentist’s office!

By Clint

October 23, 2009 7:37 PM | Link to this

I think this is hilarious..

”..Officials met with several North Lufkin residents in Austin this week to mediate a disagreement over the plant. All parties agreed to the terms of the settlement…”

pay-off, plain and simple.

By Get Ready

October 23, 2009 8:51 PM | Link to this

. Where is my check?

By mellow smoothe

October 24, 2009 11:08 AM | Link to this

Hey it’s two sides to a story, maybe they’re health issues concerns that were not evident now maybe once the plants up and running it could have been a big problem. It’s better to be safe then sorry. Think about it, what if the plant site was in or near Crown Colony, would the same issues exit? So stop trying to ride by people houses to see if they bought new cars or boats. and be glad that so one step forward to voice their concerns about the community they live in. I also think that it’s a good thing to bring jobs to North Lufkin let’s see how many North Lufkin Residents get a job at Aspen Power and how much the community change for the better, that’s the real test.

By Wild Bill

October 24, 2009 11:13 AM | Link to this

What a shark tank; I almost hate to dive in. First, I’m all for this plant and the economic benefits that it will produce. Second, ingenuity and ambition keep the econmy fron stagnation, ( and we’ve all seen enough of that). Third, this type of microeconmic activity is what drives a captalist system; it’s vital for macro growth. However, while I was watching CNBC one day, when oil was around 140 a barrel and people were searching for alternatives, a natural gas executive was being interviewed and when asked about nuclear power, said, ( and I paraphrase), ” sure, we’re all for it, but you don’t want the reactor in your backyard, do you ? “. Well, I might not protest if you sweetened the pie.

October 24, 2009 12:30 PM | Link to this

There is no such thing as a confidential settlement when it comes to TCEQ permit issues. A Public Information Request to TCEQ will reveal the contents of this deal. Mr. Vines does not want to reveal the things that he did to make this plant safer. I commend the people who stood up for the community to make this plant safer. All you small minded people who believe that they will get a job at this place just wait and see if the quality of life issue in Lufkin is improved. This was not Jesse Jackson; this was just not the Dentist, this was other born and raised Lufkin people who who did the right thing to protect the community that they were raised. Are any of you complainers from Lufkin or did you move there to get a job?

Now let’s see who goes to trial on this forgery issue. As the participants of Aspen power were willing to accomplish their goals “through any means necessary”.

Cudos to those who stood up…the venture capitalist have ruled Lufkin long enough on the backs of you poor saps who don’t know any better.

By bj

October 24, 2009 1:35 PM | Link to this

Who knows if anybody was paid off. As a result of the environmental regulations the plant will be cleaner than smoke coming from a house chimney or from burning leaves. Back when the major industries of the area started I bet those places were toxic and dangerous places to work however I bet not too many people complained about this because of the jobs that were provided. I wish the plant was near Crown Colony, I would sign up for a job and I would ride my bicycle to work.

By wampus

October 24, 2009 1:43 PM | Link to this

Hmmmmmm …. RE:By David Wilson Oct 24, 2009 12:30 PM Surely that is not “JUDGE” David Wilson!!!

The opposition would have gone nowhere without Dentist Dallas Pierre, and wasn’t really moving until Sylvester McClain with his NAACP connections joined in.

McClain is the daddy of the big hit (large lawsuit) won against Lufkin Industries, which could possibly put them out of business or at least be the cause of them moving much of the operations to other cities and states. Getting even with decisions of long dead or retired “management” by taking millions of dollars from the “present” company in these desperate times may end up costing many present and future jobs.

This delay of Aspen construction already has allowed a company in Woodville move ahead and will probably be in operation before Aspen and also one being built in Nacogdoches County.
If it happens they will get first choice on the available wood.

By Jackie

October 24, 2009 4:50 PM | Link to this

At any rate, industrial fallout was the prim-moving issue here in the first place. If there were any information concerning the ‘settlement’, then why, if Aspen retained this information, and this ‘settlement’ of resolve went direct to the protester’s, why in hell did Aspen not reveal it unto the LDN for publication?

I don’t give an Owl’s Hoot what Mr. Vines (whoever he is) said…something is not being discussed and it should be discussed and presented to the public. So what…big deal if these protester’s received something…it was Aspen’s decision to give them something, most likely, and yes, there IS speculation surrounding this “deal”. But the burning questions remains…what is not being said, draws attention and wonder.

One item, though…as in David Wilson’s (whoever he is, also) comment above; Dave, when people protest something, they do it for themselves, and their own interests only. IF they are associated with any such liberal organizations (NAACP, ACLU, etc), they do it in and for the organizations’ charter and criterion and agendas only. If the people decide to go en-masse to Aspen and protest this way, with hundreds of people or a thousand or more, then the COMMUNITY is involved. Dave…you don’t know much about social sciences, do you? After more than 37+ years as an international attorney with worldwide associations, I know. I’ve been there and done that…many times. Say something you know about.

The folks of Crown Colony (as where my home was for ten years) are raising cain over the traffic pollutants, seismic shaking and noisy “humming” from the I-59 business. Ya, ‘bj’, all they need there now is a manufacturing plant nearby.

October 24, 2009 5:53 PM | Link to this

Jackie “I think that you protest too much”.

Just as I figured. That you “carpetbaggers” are not from Lufkin as you have spent your 37 years “globetrotting”. So let me be the first to tell you that this is not California, so California law does not apply. Maybe you should have taken up social work instead of law. I never saw an attorney yet who had citizens social conscious high on their list over their pocketbooks, so I don’t think that you are qualified to state that which is best for a community. However, in having lived in Lufkin for 45 years I do know the social dynamics of this community better than you and am quite capable of communicating my opinion of it.

It’s good to see people stand up for what’s right and not follow the herd mentality. The plant will come in and there will be a few jobs, but with the dismal environmental history of Danny Vines past businesses it remains to be seen. Do you people know what a “Brownfield Site” is. This is an area that is so contaminated environmentally that no one is allowed on the property. Mr. Vines past company is now one (See the corner of Warren St. and Paul St. in Lufkin). The EPA has fenced the property, which fronts a residential neighborhood with no one allowed to enter. Do you expect these people to do that which is right for the community?

Jackie, I don’t need any lessons on Social Sciences from you. I have history on my side and it tends to repeat itself.

Wampus—If 5 million dollars is going to put Lufkin Industries out of business for all the money that they made with the social injustices off the backs of the poor; then you have no clue either.

October 24, 2009 7:58 PM | Link to this

Carpetbaggers? Well if it matters I was born on this soil and have lived my entire 30 years of life within the confines of it, my dad born on this soil, raised over 50 years here and his father and his father. Is that enough heritage for you Mr. Wilson? Is that enough East Texas blood to entitle me to a say? What does any of that prove? Your location for 45 years obviously didn’t do much to improve your demeanor or objectivity. You’ve labeled us all complainers as if by virtue of it we merit no weight in our opinions as we surely must be from somewhere else. How overall insulting of you, and exactly what are your qualifications to state what is best for our community? And no living here for 45 years isn’t going to be enough background for me. How long have you lived in North Lufkin or worked in the sort of jobs that not only those from North Lufkin but all of us of modest means, no degrees and probably no futures are working in?

I don’t trust Danny Vines as far as I could throw him, but so far all the city is capable of is spending money with very little job opportunities to show for it so while it may not be the primo opportunity we might want, at least it is something.

I don’t know that much about the group that was protesting whether they were sponsored by any of the NAACP, ACORN or any other big ticket organization, but why the secrecy in this “confidential” agreement? It screams pay out and that makes the people protesting sell outs. In this article we have what Mr. Vines word on it that the boilers will be safer, cleaner less hazardous to the area machines. Where is the proof of that? Where is the contract requiring it not for the first year or the first 10 years but for the duration of the plants life here in our community? It seems rather typical that with any pollutionally volatile business the initial placement within the community is always the most difficult and once in place will be much harder to clean up or shut down for noncompliance with such “confidential agreements”.

If the opposition to this plant, whether it be concerned North Lufkin citizens or some driving force organization behind them prevailed in this “confidential settlement” then it would seem to me they would be on the front page shouting the concessions from the rooftops. The fact that they are not definitely lends to the air of mistrust on their part as well. So did they realy accomplish anything or did Mr. Vines just figure out their price?

Maybe my 30 years here in poverty in this community doesn’t earn me the qualification to make a statement about this or anything else in town, but I really don’t care I am just as entitled to complain, protest and try to make things right here as you or anyone else.

It is good to see people to stand up for what is right, and not follow the herd mentality. Didn’t you just call us complaining carpetbaggers for doing just that? because we dare to question the secrecy not only from Mr. Vines, but from this group of concerned citizens as well. If everything is on the up and up they would have all been on the front page with their concessions and the positive outcome for their community.

By wampus

October 24, 2009 9:42 PM | Link to this

Let the record show that I have lived at various places from within 3 miles of Aspen’s plant site to approx 15 miles away for 73 years,(except severaal years in the Army) AND have worked at numerous places including Lufkin Foundry and Texas Foundry, so I am VERY QUALIFIED to speak on just about ANY issue affecting Lufkin or Angelina County.

I have even eaten many meals at Geneva’s Restaurant on Kurth Drive’s during it’s glory days before the black community let the area slide into a slum.
I remember when it was lined with black business equal to Timberland Drive, and in the area was a great park and lake, great schools, stores, service stations, motel, Kegler BBQ, shoe repair, dairy mart drivein, plumbing company.

Was safe day or night for black or white. The black folks of that era were proud and exercised discpline on their younguns as did white folks.

AND I was raised in poverty and my parents farmed for a living. My first job away from the farm in Lufkin I worked 12 hours a day, 7 days a week, for $21.00 a week, AND was proud to get a job.

Incidently, there were TWO creosote plants. I’m not sure Danny Vines was connected to either one at the time.

The one on Paul Street was called Higgins plant.
After the war, my Daddy quit raising cotton (tho he still farmed some) he and his brother bought aa 1934 Ford log truck and started cutting, peeling, and hauling poles to the creosote plants as power companies begin expanding.

We didn’t get electricity until 1948.
I worked the kind of low paying jobs the blacks did, but my time in the Army trained me for a better one when I got out.

October 25, 2009 7:49 AM | Link to this

All 4 of you make good points: Jackie, David Wilson, Concerned, & Wampus.

Our area needs jobs & this plant will provide some. Mr. Vines, being a businessman, figured out a way to make this deal come together. Sometimes, a little “under the table money” is what it takes to make deals happen. That certainly seems to be the case here. My hope is that Mr. Vines & his people will do everything possible to make this plant safe & clean for North Lufkin. I trust that they will.

Everyone’s opinion matters, regardless of exactly how long you’ve lived in the area. That’s what this all about…speaking your mind - and hopefully learning from what others have to say. I have read all of your posts & I can find good points in each of them.

By Jackie

October 25, 2009 3:08 PM | Link to this

David Wilson, “You Know Not What You Say”!

Davie-Boy…don’t get your razor-cut all out of layer, now…calm down and be nice for a change. I spent ten years in Lufkin, bought a nice home in CC, paid my taxes on time, contributed to all local business (except for buying my Cadillacs in Houston) and was on a school board. I was a good neighbor and never had a traffic ticket; my wife worked at PineCrest as a professional for that time we were there. What are you so mad about, Davie?

If I “globetrot”, it is because of my work…and through government contracts we have, I’m ordered to do such on occasion. Jealous? And, once more, I KNOW Texas is not California; cannot you accept a bit of information on how some other state’s conduct their business and learn (for a change) your state seems to not have much in this line of control?

If I have personal opinion, Davie, I will so state that. None of us has one train of thought all the time, and I happen to have much social work involved in cities where I always resided. Somehow I get the feeling right off that it is YOUR attitude and demeanor that needs adjusting, Davie. There are things in my comment apparently you just don’t get. Understand me, Davie?

Yes, Davie…most everyone who watches TV knows what “Brownfield” was. Did you tell them that during the winter/spring thaw, is when the toxic chemicals arose from the ground (which were buried not so far underground)? Did you tell the public further, that the EPA and other agencies designed a completely revamped and organized rule of law and engineering process to “bury” toxic waste? Davie…if you mention something, best to explain it to the people who do not know about things such as “Brownfield”.

So be it, if you “have history on your side”; but the histories are flawed, Davie. So is your attitude. Best to explain things a little more cordially; but unfortunately, in this comment so far, I had to lower myself to your level, Davie!

OSHA has certain “boiler laws” instituted, anyway. It does not take a rocket scientist to read into how boilers are to be properly installed in certain industrial settings, respective of the type of setting they are used in. If someone is skirting the law, it is no wonder the issue came up. Emissions are falling into the similar categories. It takes a very stupid person to install out-of-method machinery, when they should realize they will be checked-into as a new business. Texas Environmental also has a BIG say in this, also. If they did not receive the proper or incomplete paperwork, then here they come! Really did not need protesting, anyway…just someone who knew what they were talking about.

But, no business deal needs “under the table money” to satisfy corruptness on any one’s part. I guess Lufkin is now following the mind set and thought process of the Philippines, China, and South America and African nations in their methods. Oh, and Davie, learn something and listen for a change! 45 years old, huh…27 years since you left high school; given 4 years of college, that gives you only 23 years of actual work, if you worked in the same discipline all that time. Not much time…not much time…to display your “qualifications’.

By Jackie

October 25, 2009 3:22 PM | Link to this

Wampus - I wished times and people were the same now, as they were described by yourself in the above post. I remember those times, in part, myself; although about 5+ years younger than you are. I do remember the climate then. Wished we could return.

I know there was a creosote plant near Alto, traveling north heading into Alto. Probably this plant has been in operation for quite some time. Seems today, if you walk into a “Black” neighborhood or restaurant in their neighborhood, if you walk out without being stomped on or your car not ransacked, you are fortunate. People change, not so much “times”…people make the “times” themselves.

If the plant goes up, it is fine with me…I don’t care, however, in consideration to the environmental problems local residents could face - even those employed at the plant - best be address prior to plant operations are started.

October 25, 2009 8:57 PM | Link to this

Jackie and Wampus; and I bet you have “black” friends too! LOL!! Your true color is showing!!!

Jackie, you are making a lot of incorrect assumptions to be as smart as you proport to be. You know about assumptions-they make an a*__ out of you. Your math is definitely flawed…you didn’t take into account my Masters Degree and some other travels around the continent…

I am too busy laughing at you to be angry about anything….again about those assumptions…

Your prejudice as you “prejudge” that which will happen when you go into a black neighborhood. In previous City of Lufkin PD statistics, the highest crime rate area in Lufkin is in the area of the Lufkin Mall and Crown Colony. I am sure that more cars are broken into in that area than anywhere in town and I don’t see many minorities owning property in that area.

Just get the plant right. Evidently, this was not done initially by Aspen Power. Texas Commission on Environmental Quality did not find the initial shortcomings in their review process; if you are waiting for a regulatory commission to protect you, then you are in trouble. Commissioners of these agencies are merely political appointments of the Governor who made the largest political contribution. I am sure that Aspen Power and Danny Vines made a few contributions to the fine Republicans who run the State of Texas, but no one is talking about that type of “greasing of palms” just what you think was given to “poor people”. People get a grip, you are being pitted against each other for the good of the beneficiaries.

In closing I will be the first to say that we all have the constitutional right of free speech and I applaud each of you for expressing it. So save your lectures for someone else, because they don’t impress me. I just wish the silent majority of people of Lufkin would express their opinion.

FREE THE PEOPLE OF NORTH LUFKIN!

By Jackie

October 25, 2009 10:18 PM | Link to this

Davie is on a rant…Davie is on a rant!

Davie, please do not place race cards with either me OR ‘wampus’. We are and have contributed more to society and to Old Lufkin than you may realize. By the way, Davie…I knew about the word, “Assume”, back in 1947. I never assume anything, Davie. You, with your name published all over the place are making no hit-points with the Black, or Latino communities in Lufkin, Davie Wilson (whoever you are).

Oh, Davie…I hold three Doctorates…all LLD’s! Your little Master’s degree just took you 2 years past your undergraduate degree of 4 years…what reasoning and message are you attempting to put out to the people of Lufkin? Your a smartie? Who really cares, Davie?

You might hold this “Masters”, but your emotional and attitudinal levels are very low; in fact, I would opt for ‘wampus” decision any day, before I would consider using your theories.

No, Davie, you are not laughing at all. You want people to think you are laughing because your friends are reading this posting and you have to save face…just as the military now is doing in Afghanistan and Pakistan…fighting for reputation only at this point. Right, Davie?

Davie…Davie…Davie…you just don’t get it! You just said the crime rate is highest in Crown Colony and the Mall…not in Black (with a capital “B”…you put in a small ‘b’) neighborhoods; well, Davie, this is where crimes rates are HIGHEST…not where the SOURCE of the crimes have been emanating FROM. Man, you really are in error, aren’t you? Then you went right on to state that, “more cars are broken into in that area than any area in town and I don’t see any minorities owning properties in that area.” Race card, little Davie? How do you know I’m not Black? More so, Davie, your command of English Grammar is atrocious! Master’s Degree? Your command of logic is as much! Master’s Degree?

Whatever and however Vines (whoever he is) and Aspen, run the business at hand is no concern, as I said, of mine. Just a series of underground ‘Old Texas’ dealings gone bad…turned into some good…but more is to come on Aspen later on. You are not optimistic, are you.

Davie, if our “lectures” did not impress you, why did you feel you have to express your “lectures” so much in retort? They must have impressed you or else you would not have spoken out so long and loud, Davie. Maybe the silent majority of Lufkin HAVE spoken, Davie. Don’t you consider yourself “silent” or “loud” majority or minority, Davie. Now go back and play with your friends for awhile and figure out a come-back to post.

October 26, 2009 1:27 AM | Link to this

Mr. Wilson, I believe it was the impressive statements you made about the duration of time here that led Jackie to believe you surely must be from here, and the numbers you gave making you 45. If there was at a time in your life where Judge was a part of your title then you would be much older than that having arrived in this county when you were about my age. It’s a good thing they didn’t subscribe to your exclusivity policy back then or perhaps you, yourself would have found it necessary to seek employment elsewhere.

I have no doubt the crime rates would be higher at the Mall and Crown Colony. Having money does not a good parent make, and the Mall is a notorious drop off zone for the ever obnoxious tween to teen population whose parents have had enough of their ADHD at the house. Just driving around our fair city (yes North Lufkin included) there are way more patrol units on the loop, hwy 59 war zone (err…construction area), Mall and those nice little subdivided deed restricted areas than there are in North Lufkin. Logic might also say the crime rate is statistically higher there because that is where the greatest chance of being caught in the act is.

With regards to what you had to say over the recent litigation involving Lufkin Industries, well perhaps there is some merit there. I have never been denied a job because I was female, or told to stay in my home and cook for my husband by a potential employer, but both of my grandmothers lived in a time where they were so perhaps I should pursue my own course of affirmative action to avenge (financially of course) wrongs they endured to model a society where I wouldn’t have to. At what point do we accept that we aren’t the ones being persecuted and move on? Whether they will or will not go out business because of one 5 million dollar settlement who knows, but it certainly will not help the economic plight of one of the last remaining industries here. Perhaps we should all take comfort in knowing that unemployment will be equal opportunity.

I agree that the people actually living in North Lufkin if they benefitted at all it was not of a large portion of whatever settlement that ensued. With Mr. Vines agreeing to a settlement with some, as yet unnamed, statement making organization the people who live in this area will no doubt be the biggest losers if there is indeed a loss to be had in this equation because as you say the regulatory commissions are easily greased themselves and this “confidential settlement” proves Mr. Vines a willing participant of such arrangements.

Shouting free the people of North Lufkin will not absolve them of their shortcomings. To be free, to be successful, to be productive and to strive for better will be a lot of hard work and most of that burden they will have to assume themselves. I cannot identify with the plight of their skin color, but I definitely identify with their poverty and the fact just is we aren’t going to wake up one morning rich or living in Crown Colony, but the measure of our worth may well be higher than a lot of those who are born into that kind of privilege. The power of freedom lies within oneself, and the first step in doing that is not letting where you live define who you are.

October 26, 2009 7:38 PM | Link to this

As a kind old gentleman said the day that John Hinkley shot Ronald Reagan—Jackie—“You just know enough to be a fool”. Jackie, you are the only person playing the race card in this discussion, but at your age, that is what you were taught in school (or at home) therefore that is all you know. I was just addressing your unwarranted statements about black people…I noticed that you didn’t say anything about the plight of the poor…just minorities, so yes you are prejudiced.

Give up on your justifications on why the crime rate in Crown Colony is high…could it be because of all the white collar crime going on that “is” included in these statistics.

You are displaying a typical tactic when people disagree in trying to discredit your opponent…Sonny boy I am not your opponent. I would wager that my home is valued as much as yours; that my high six figure salary is comparative to your retirement pay (if you are still driving a Cadillac you need to move up—725’s or at least an M6) and because I am younger than you I don’t need your Viagra and have many more good years to live than you. So I have no desire to be in your shoes.

Jocko, your LLD’s (Doctorate of Law) just means that you are probably a very shoddy attorney who has taken poor people’s land and money to represent them over the years…are any of them from Rivercrest?

Concerned Taxpayer, I think that Jocko is a big enough person to take care of himself. What are you concerned about? I think you should go and mind your own business and get back to your Fox News shows and Rush Limbaugh where all your philosophy comes from. You probably don’t pay half the taxes that you should…and you are concerned…you old geezers are a joke.

Lufkin is a fantastic place to live and will be much better when the old values of people like you are no longer around.

You people have nothing to do with your time (I can tell by your lengthy dissertations). Find someone to help besides your greedy selfs.

Congratulations to those who made Lufkin safer by making Aspen’s Power Plant safer!!!!!

October 26, 2009 10:12 PM | Link to this

You are not very good at doing your homework are you Mr. Wilson. If I am an old geezer at 30 years of age then what are you saying the world should be ran by adolescents.

You are correct Jackie is more than capable of defending himself and no he does not understand the plight of poor people anymore than you do with your classic cars and six figure income. I don’t understand or pretend to know the plight of poor people. I live it daily check to check, hospital bills that ruined me and left me questioning whether my own life was worth what it cost to save it. A life where I was told (and believed for a time) that staying in school, utilizing my intelligence and my talents to secure a future and I too would be able to overcome this socioeconomic standing. But that just isn’t true is it. Almost half of my meager salary goes to insurance premiums and taxes and you have the audacity to believe I should pay more. You really should hold office you sound just like a typical politician. It is laughable you think I derive my opinions from fox news. See in my neck of the woods when you have to choose between TV, a 300 (that’s what my insurance doesn’t pay) a month pharmacy bill or eating well suffice it to say I haven’t had tv in years. I have only seen the president speak once when my car was being serviced.

By Comcernedtaxpayer

October 26, 2009 10:30 PM | Link to this

There is nothing I can say to give you a true grasp of being poor or Jackie either for that matter. The only way to know is to live it. How many times has Mr. TXU been to your house to turn off the power because with gas at nearly 4 bucks a gallon and cobra premiums over 500 a month there is no money for electric those months. Do you really have any grasp of what that’s like? Or maybe your masters and six figures just doesn’t care.

October 26, 2009 10:41 PM | Link to this

I see that Mr. Wilson has resorted to the old (if you don’t like what I believe, then pack your crap & get the hell out of East Texas before sundown) approach to dealing with others in the LDN comment section.

Mr. Wilson, you are an arrogant old jerk, in my view. Your opinion is just as valuable as everyone else’s…worth about 2 cents. Who gives a rat’s a## what you or anyone else commenting here is worth, or exactly how long you’ve lived here. It darned sure doesn’t give you the right to be the comment sheriff.

Where a person lives is irrelevant, as well. If a person chooses to live in Crown Colony & pay the astronomical property taxes out there…then so be it. WHO CARES!

It’s people like you that give East Texas a bad name. Quit being a closed minded old fool, and for Pete’s sake, quit being so judgmental. You are most certainly not the arbiter for the posts in this paper…please do not confuse yourself into thinking that you are.

Remember - your opinion is worth about 2 cents.

October 26, 2009 11:09 PM | Link to this

To go a step further Mr. Wilson, how do we know the Aspen plant is going to be safer? It’s not up & running, is it? All we can do is trust Danny Vines & hope that this operation will be above board when it comes on line. If it’s not…then surely appropriate actions will be taken to either shut it down or bring it up to acceptable standards.

Mr. Vines is more than likely a capitalist. He certainly isn’t scared to take a risk. I admire him for that. It is very interesting to me that the few people that have fought against him the most…were quickly bought & paid for in the end game, turning their backs on the “safety” of their North Lufkin brothers when a few dollars were waved in their faces. Doesn’t really say much for them, now does it? I’m sure these folks will enjoy picking out the color for their new Cadillac. They should select “black”…it’s the color of their heart & soul.

It’s people like Vines who create jobs in this country…even by paying off the “opposition”. Hats off to Danny Vines, & long live Rush Limbaugh & FOX NEWS!

October 26, 2009 11:20 PM | Link to this

Oh yeah - the above posts are just my opinion - worth about 2 cents!

October 27, 2009 8:10 AM | Link to this

There is the old stop and think or is it the new improved one. You were starting to sound like me. Mr. Wilson has apparently just been in a position far too long where his opinion was the only one that mattered so he continues to hammer it home like we are also forced to listen or bid us to leave if we do not. My family has been here for several generations now. I’m not leaving and I too believe East Texas is a beautiful place to live.

I think it is a shame that our moral code has reduced both business and protestors to requiring some monetary settlement for clean air and job promotion. Every time a problem arises with this plant is this the way it will be dealt with?

October 27, 2009 1:01 PM | Link to this

My family has been here for years - I am fourth generation East Texas. I love Lufkin & I’m pround to call this place HOME.

I genuinely hope that Aspen is a huge success. Any jobs we can bring into this market right now is a good thing. Maybe the “squeaky wheels” in North Lufkin will require no more grease. Let’s hope so.

October 27, 2009 1:33 PM | Link to this

Lets hope so, that side of town definitely needs some business opportunities. I was on Raguet the other day and saw them tearing down the Foundary. I suppose the same can be expected of the papermill? Sort of marks the end of an era. Why no front page article on that? We get nostalgic interludes on lighting up the outside of a theatre that is not even in a state to be used as of yet, but no nostalgia from the soon gone Foundary? Of course it the city had been any sort of an enterprising institution perhaps they would have taken the money from capital improvements and bought the place to scrap out themselves. Could have paid back the bond for the initial purchase and used the proceeds to enhance their downtown projects with very little expense to the taxpayers.

I’m at least 4th generation too Stop and think. I believe it is actually more than that as when going back far enough on my father’s side the heritage traces to native Americans. (Grandmother was heavy into geneology). I just stop with the generations I actually knew.

We need jobs, and at the rate we’re losing them beggars can’t really be choosers so green grease or not at least there will be some modest employment opportunity that doesn’t involve a retail or restaurant establishment. Now if they can just figure out what to do with that old town square shopping center and Albertson’s.

By Jackie

October 27, 2009 1:57 PM | Link to this

Davie is mad. I don’t care, and his rant still goes on. If I were a woman, I would despise being married to this kind of person, ‘concernedtaxpayer’!

Davie is wrong in so many of his obviously twisted theories and trying to thwart in a major twist, what I said. The crime in CC; I really do not know of, and don’t care. What kind of “white-collar crime” is happening in CC to make it a high stat crime area? Someone stealing the funds from the country club store? I saw some blue collar workers living in CC who were also selling drugs out of his home…and why do you think Crown Colony is so “exclusive”? This place is not so exclusive as a subdivision. Years ago when this was the first subdivision with golf course as a resident-attraction, it enticed a particular type of person to live there - salesmanship and marketing technique.

I live overseas, Davie, and have a lot of land and a very nice home. I drive a Hummer…not Cadillacs (dread the thought) and I own 2008 Jaguar (my wife’s car) and also a nice 2009 Mercedes convertible (my car - just bought a month ago). Our crap car is an Escort - driven on rainy days. Why are you concerned about what I drive? Maybe now you can be satisfied to know what. By the way, I’m not a civil lawyer…we work under contracts for the US Government and have overseas private contracts with corporations and other large firms, Davie.

No, I do not take “poor people’s land and money”…I’m not in that group of attorneys. That lifestyle belongs to little local yokel attorneys who have nothing better to do and hold no moral station. “Rivercrest”…what’s that, and who cares?

And, Davie…”you people” (the terminology that ruined that little millionaire from Texas, Ross Perot, who was running for President a few years ago…) have a LOT to do with their time. We also operate a trash/garbage/recycling operation here with a fleet of three Scania trucks designed for a specific task, and accounts. We began this business back in June of last year, and it is already very profitable…in ADDITION to my firms work and missions.

Davie Wilson, you are purporting yourself to be a fool of your own making. If you cannot respect and LISTEN and READ as to what ‘concernedtaxpayer’ is saying, and others too, you are truly in the Ostrich Syndrome. It are folks in here blogging, which have their own issues, problems and so forth who seem to have a REAL HANDLE on what is going on. And then you get on here and demean, criticize and dishonor their intellect!! You…well, you are just a lifestyle junkie, Davie Wilson. You obviously don’t give a flip for anyone else “below” your level of lifestyle. You are very unfortunate David Wilson, I really pity you. You probably just committed political and social suicide by making all these statements about people you don’t even know, or care to know, and then accuse the same others of being the type of person YOU really are!

Personally, I loved Lufkin, and the folks therein and thereout. I have been a resident of Texas now for the last 34 years, moving there from Florida through the auspices of a government transfer. I still own property in Houston and pay taxes, Davie. Don’t talk when, to whom, what and where you don’t know!

October 27, 2009 2:07 PM | Link to this

Something nice is in the works at the old Albertson’s shopping center. You can take that to the bank. I think you will be pleased when they open their doors next Spring. Lower food prices are on their way to Lufkin residents!

October 27, 2009 6:27 PM | Link to this

I have no discard with anyone on this blog. However, there were a few of you “Internet Bullies” that needed addressing.

There are a lot of issues to address for the poor people of our commmunity and it is not a black and white issue. It is a humanitarian issue. Prosperity is good for all of us, but should it come at a price that sacrifices the quality of life for all of us. Oh yes, this plant will affect your quality of life in a negative fashion. There are many businesses that would be willing to come to Lufkin if Lufkin brands itself as a quality community that will not let just anything come into its city limits for the sake of a few jobs. Lufkin was started as an industrial community, but does it have to continue that way? In being located in the pristine forest country of East Texas there are many clean entreprenueral activities that would locate here. Do you think that they would do so beside an unsightly fire breathing power generating plant. How about a high tech company, distribution company, expanding health care opportunities and the such and they would all pay more than Aspen power and bring in many more jobs. People, we just have to stop settling for anything because that is what you will get “anything”. Is anyone trying to recruit such business?

Its as simple as having a road map for the future; because if you don’t you will end up lost or wherever someone leads you with their directions.

Lufkin is a great town with a great future no matter what people may say.

LONG LIVE LUFKIN!!!

October 27, 2009 8:04 PM | Link to this

Mr. Wilson…perhaps you should compare the two cities of Lufkin & Nacogdoches.

One city has welcomed business activity & growth with open arms…the other has not. One city council has bent over backwards to bring economic development into town…the city commission in our neighbor to the north has done everything possible to control business growth.

Look at the two cities sales tax revenues & make a comparison…guess what? There is no comparison. Lufkin is a far wealthier town than Nacogdoches. This will continue to be the trend as long as “business friendly” people run Lufkin, & a pile of arrogant moron college professors run Nacogdoches.

Nacogdoches has dozens of restrictive ordinances, while Lufkin has very few. If you want to encourage growth & keep bringing new companies into this town…it needs to stay that way. A business owner hates government control - at almost any level. Slap a bunch of do-gooder BS red-tape nonsense on businesses in Lufkin & you can kiss our future good-bye.

Mr. Wilson, at the risk of sounding like you…perhaps you should investigate a move out of Lufkin & into Nacogdoches. Living there might suit you better. We will, however, continue to welcome your dollars at our mall, nice restuarants, & numerous retail outlets. Sorry, but you wont find all of that in Nacogdoches.

October 27, 2009 11:30 PM | Link to this

Does anyone on this blog have an original thought? stop & think,if you are only a fourth generation Angelina Countian you cannot suggest that I go anywhere; just be glad that you are allowed to live here. Here we go again “You know just enough to be a fool”.

You are misinterpreting my thoughts or you don’t have enough vision to realize what I am saying. We are talking about a much bigger vision than Lufkin or Nacogdoches. Nacogdoches?? What a joke. Neither town is growing and the population of both has hovered around 32,000 for many years. Lufkin might have a 2% growth rate which is a dismal growth rate and the sales tax rate of increase is about the same and in fact has decreased year to date the last two months. The model cities of Texas have experienced 20% to 200% growth rates in this decade. Plano which has accepted high quality companies (Frito Lay) that have boosted the economy and added quality with high paying jobs. Round Rock, Texas which was 20,000 population in the 90’s and is now over 100,000 with the addition of Dell (high tech good paying jobs), Semi-pro baseball (quality of life and jobs) and Outlet Malls (enormous sales tax) and Sugarland Texas (private-public partnerships)which are all great additions to those cities. You will not find an unsightly mountain of a wood plant in these cities for less than 100 jobs. These cities have made decisions to bring in thousands of jobs, not settle for one hundred and get trashed in the process.

I Love Lufkin but it is not keeping up with Tyler and Longview. So save your leave Lufkin quote I can feel coming on…someone needs some logic around here and you certainly don’t have it.

By Jackie

October 27, 2009 11:35 PM | Link to this

No “Internet Bullies” being intentional, DW…just that we have a right to fight for our rights and make reasonable, factual comments which may apply to whatever we are making the statement to and of.

So now, ‘stop & think’…we notice DW is backpedaling! Interesting tack this time, DW! Nice to see DW (and “DW” is NOT what some think it is…or it could be, too).

stop & think’, your last post above is true and I suggest DW take heed to this suggestion. He can continue to buy his classics at the place near Tyler, too. ‘Stop’, I never did shop for anything in Naco. Lufkin was always my place…and of course Houston for anything I needed. But the cars I owned were not bought in Lufkin, instead I went to Houston for the deals. We shopped for food at Randall’s, but often went to some discount place off Timberland (on the right side of the road, going southward), for lots of other food items, including eggs, etc. We never went into any store, however, without getting friendly with the meat department people and the store manager. That gives away right-off, the quality of service, and the demeanor of the store and many other reasons to shop there. Naco? No. Was not for us at all. Every week, my wife and I would eat at some downtown restaurant (among others) which had “white tablecloth” service and a piano bar. Seems it had an Italian-sounding name, but I may be mistaken on that.

By Jackie

October 27, 2009 11:38 PM | Link to this

DW can “misinterpret” our thoughts…but nobody is allowed to “misinterpret” his thoughts! My, my, my! Maybe, Davie, it is simply because you don’t have anything to say…in actuality anymore. Beat it!

October 28, 2009 12:10 AM | Link to this

I am not sure what you mean by “Internet bullies” or any manner with which you’ve addressed that particular problem directly. Passing judgment and wild assumptions on others without ever getting to know them is just as much a bullying technique. I have spoken with and gotten to know quite a few of the regular posters here. We have at times had unpleasant interludes, unpleasant topics and sometimes just a bad day. I have a strong personality for many reasons none of which include bullying strangers into my own mindset. I would rather believe them capable of thinking independently. Manners and some sense of decorum were needed on this board. You and Jackie have both proven no matter ones status you are perfectly capable of lowering ones own standard of address to undermine and childishly speak to the other. Either of you could have taken the high road and for all the income, degrees and business ventures neither of you did.

Then you want us to accept your ideas that you know best about how to solve the poverty crisis here in town or really in this county as Lufkin serves as the main hub for job opprtunities far beyond it’s borders. Humanitarianism only works when the effort is genuine and followed through. You cannot throw money at a problem and expect it will go away.

I agree in part that better business opportunities would be an ideal solution. The point you fail to mention is that a good portion of the population (especially among the poor) is vastly under educated and quite a few believing education unnecessary at best. Take a look at the amount of students enrolled in alternative education programs. That number is increasing yearly when the goal should be the exact opposite. Better less labor intensive business require more brain power than basic laborer industry jobs so how will holding out for technology, healthcare or any jobs that require a basic education level benefit a portion of the population only qualified to be a laborer? No matter what their station is in this community they are just as vital to it as it’s wealthier members. You can’t have a super community that drives out the uneducated poor or forces them into a life of crime as an alternative to the lack of qualifying employment.

Balance is needed and perhaps better city/county planning as we certainly do seem to be failing on quite a few levels. Nightclubs next to residential districts, tax abatements for a plant that layer off over 600 people, bonds for capital improvements to “promote tourism” to a section of town with limited parking at best, 50 million dollar bonds for an inflated school budget that ended up with a 10 million dollar surplus. It really seems like almost every major decision making board in this town needs to be replaced. We don’t need more or less government we need better government inclusive government for poor, wealthy and middle class.

October 28, 2009 12:30 AM | Link to this

Mr. Wilson are you and Ben Franklin the same person?

By wampus

October 28, 2009 3:03 AM | Link to this

RE Jackie = I live overseas ~~ and have a lot of land and a very nice home. I drive a Hummer…not Cadillacs (dread the thought) and I own 2008 Jaguar (my wife’s car) and also a nice 2009 Mercedes convertible (my car - just bought a month ago). Our crap car is an Escort - ~~…we work under contracts for the US Government and have overseas private contracts with corporations and other large firms “Rivercrest”…what’s that, and who cares?

YOU DON’T HAVE A DOG IN THIS FIGHT JACKIE!!! Moving here from Florida (or anywhere else) and living here for 10 years, then moving on doesn’t “Vest” you in this community. Doesn’t even give you much of a right to an opinion, so you need to shag it on down the road.
Incidently, Are you in a US Possession or a foreign country AND is any US Government Dollars going to support this company you work for?? You had me fooled for a while. We people who were raised here and/or have at least a generation of history will take care of this!!

And David, you have let Jackie goad you into a pis*sing contest. AND I don’t fully agree with you either. Foundrys are dirty by nature. As a boy BEFORE Sam Rayburn, the paper mill water discharge would cause Angelina River to be coal black, but I fished and eat fish out of it as thousands of others did.

But By God they along with the sawmills fed and educated tens of thousands of (possibly hundreds of thousands in the bigger picture) citizens.
With them now out of business, Lufkin and Angelina County is cleaner than it has been in the past 100 years.

We can afford a little pollution for jobs in the area.
Oh, I almost forgot that as I grew up almost everyone had a wood heater or fireplace heating their houses and belching smoke, so starting around 1960,that source of polution begin to deminish.

October 28, 2009 5:21 AM | Link to this

Mr. Wilson…not every town in America can house a baseball team, a giant computer corporation, & a factory outlet mall. Are you nuts?

Everyone in America will never be rich, thta’s just the way things work. Poor people will always exist. LBJ is dead, in case you were unaware, and his lofty visions of a “Great Society”…well, that’s what’s put us in this huge mess we’re in today. The “spread the wealth around” method does not work!

After reading more & more of your left-leaning posts, I conclude you are nothing more than a confused liberal kook - like a few others I’ve encountered here. Your banter about clean air, how to bring in jobs, & dislike for poverty prove it.

I know many business owners in this town, several city council members, & have a very good grasp on what direction the town is heading towards. I like the direction we’re going in. Sorry if you do not. It can often come down to “what you know” or “who you know”. I my case Mr. Wilson…it’s BOTH.

Be lucky I’m “allowed” to live here??? Mr. Wilson…YOU say just enough to be a FOOL.

By Jackie

October 28, 2009 9:36 AM | Link to this

‘wampus’, you need to calm down and read into what has been said here. This post has become overridden with personal issues which evolved into other avenues.

Now ‘concernedtaxpayer’ thinks the rich guys are dummies, are two-dimensional, cannot think or stand on their own, and are blinded by the light of not being “poor”, as ‘CT’ claims is her station…and really, so what? We all can’t be pretty, rich, poor, have quantity-education, or even live where we want. Could be anyone who has experience in what their life situations have taught them, can relate to one another…and, ‘CT’, I do not relate to you, nor David Wilson. I comment on the comment; context and content, not the person behind it not if they are rich and poor. I noticed you claim all the time your unfortunate life…well, you are your own agent, ‘CT’. Live here as it is or get off the block.

David Wilson made a remark about what I drive or something like that…and it really does not matter what I drive…especially to ears and eyes who cannot seem to fathom my responsibilities, who I work for, or anything else. When asked, I let him know. Simple as that. David seemed to accept that.

But, ‘wampus’ so you, tonight or this afternoon in your retirement days, can sleep well, I will answer your bold post:

I don’t care if I have any “vested interests” in Lufkin or not. I do in Houston, however. I own property there and pay my taxes on time, and that is all. I do have a civil and constitutional right to go into any web site and initiate comments. Check out the First Amendment to the US Constitution. You cannot make your own laws and think like that…what if someone told you, you cannot comment because you are 73 years old and probably have ‘old-timers disease’? Does not fit, really, does it? This is an open-forum web site…anyone, even from England, Germany, China, Japan can come in here and post. You don’t own it, ‘wampus’.

I was forced by government order to move to Lufkin, ‘wampus’…like it or not. I’m in a foreign country. I plan to stay here, and when I’m in the US, I live in my place in Houston. And, you do not need to know about what the US Government does in support of this company I work for…it is my company, and what we do is confidential to your inquiries. We work with many agencies and other companies and governments. Go ahead, ‘wampus’ and take care of this, and take care of that in Lufkin and its environs…but you natives just cannot seem to take care of anything by the shape and temperature Lufkin has gone in the last 25 or more years by its indigenous residents. Its running a near failure mode and stabilized.

Maybe you need to look outside the box for a change…it is very dark in the box when you are on the inside trying to look out, sir.

By BenFranklin

October 28, 2009 12:03 PM | Link to this

No, CT, I’ve just been observing this one. Interesting stuff going on, though. Ha. I wish I had all the edumacation that Wilson guy has. I’ve just got a measly little old B.S. from SFA.

October 28, 2009 1:29 PM | Link to this

I seem to have missed the post where I stated my belief of the rich being “dummies”. I inject my life’s experiences (as you have also done) in direct response to my own defense as I was called an old rich geezer which was in fact in direct contradiction to what is true.

My experiences are how I arrived at my opinions, perhaps the background isn’t necessary, though if it isn’t presented then I face comments like the one above that the community will be better off when my old rich geezer self is no longer around. Maybe it will, we shall certainly know that in good time anyway.

Talking about being poor or “unfortunate” (though I’d prefer less fortunate) doesn’t mean I’m unhappy with the place that I am. I am working towards my own future as well as the various opportunities I utilize to benefit others in my modest attempt to give back more than I have taken. It will take time and I’m still quite young, it would be a rarity indeed for someone to wake up at 30 a millionaire with all the successes one could hope for in life (what exactly would be the challenge in living the rest of it?).

To a degree everyone is their own agent, but there are always outside conditions beyond individual control. It is a public blog, and obviously we all must have some interest in it or none of us would be here. If any of you are in a position to “take care of the ills of Lufkin” then do it, but there is no need to cast someone aside for injecting an opinion whether they are vested in the town or not. It is really all interconnected as this recession should have beyond a shadow of a doubt proven. When the US economy tanked, the world followed. Whether we want to be or not we are global.

I do not presume to think anything about anyone, their status or their capabilities. Just here as an observer integrating into the conversation as it is something I enjoy.

October 29, 2009 12:57 AM | Link to this

stop & think or Rush Limbaugh Jr. or Fox News (you probably actually think its real news) you are the only non thinker on here. If it wasn’t for you repeating what you see on TV I would say that you are the one from “Rivercrest”.

We all Love Lufkin, however, you need to experience a little culture outside of your trailer house. I am glad that you “know” someone. I think that we all do. We all know council members and other elected officials; we are the ones that elect them; I believe that they work for us. Insecurities make for a man being afraid of another man prospering. “A rising tide raises all boats”.

I feel sorry for you because you have never experienced a nice quality of life. Quality of life is just not having resources either. What is wrong with clean air, a prosperous economy and people living together in harmony? Lufkin could already use some cleaning up. High weeds, trash, inoperable vehicles all over town. Try getting out of east texas every once in a while to experience other things. People like you is what give east texas a bad name. I like the businessmen too; but other than Arthur Temple have there been any that really cared about more than putting a dime in their pocket at someone elses expense.

Either you don’t have a clue or you are one of the people that are in power and taking advantage of people and we know how bad that people who are in power want to keep it. You like the direction because you are a benefactor of that direction.

I believe that I have stated my credentials in an earlier post so I don’t need anything from you stop & be dumber. At least I make you use your brain a little bit. You might actually try reading a book…you might enjoy it! LOL!!!

October 29, 2009 6:03 AM | Link to this

Mr. Wilson, I’m sorry you are such a bitter bastard. You’re so off the mark about who I am or what I believe it isn’t even funny. Debating you is a pointless waste of time. Take your “credentials” (real or not?) and go to hell.