Talk of Lufkin

October 4, 2009 8:55 AM | Link to this

ALSO - to all of the people who have rushed out & taken concealed handgun classes…who do you think CommieBama & his army will come after first??? They will obtain a list of concealed handgun owners in each state - then they will be knocking at your door! Get ready America - this president wants total control. He is a sociopath!

By darthraider

October 4, 2009 10:24 AM | Link to this

Is it too late for sucession?

By ProudDem

October 4, 2009 11:09 AM | Link to this

It really worries me that there are people out there like stop & think and Texas Citizen. Yes I’m sure it is all some government conspiracy to keep you from having ammo. There is no ammo because idiots like you ran out and bought guns for which now you need ammo. You call President Obama a sociopath when you yourself sound like a paranoid schizophrenic. Really CommieBama and his army?!?! If you could just escape your backwoods East Texas mentality and come into the year 2009 you might see what a crazy you really seem like. This is a simple supply and demand problem.

October 4, 2009 11:26 AM | Link to this

It’s secession, not sucession. Better think long and hard before believing that idea is the only way to better ourselves. Pay much attention to the articles printed in this paper? Might want to consider getting off the Washington teet before cutting oneself off totally. One cannot be sure, but putting it to a vote just how many of our citizens are willing to give up their Medicare? Social Security? even the welfare handouts of Medicaid, Lonestar and WIC? Anyone ready to quit begging Washington for more handouts? We could start with giving back the 6+ million for the new civic center expansion. Or maybe the next hurricane that hits we will just live without FEMA right because if those greedy beggars want their lights back on well they can just dig the holes and restore the utility poles themselves.

When the recession hit, so did public fear. Obama’s election added to that. I read several articles and know several “new” gun owners. In fact gun sales rose disproportionately higher compared to retail sales of just about everything else. Now everyone is so quick to jump to the conclusion that the president must be the culprit wanting to stifle the people and reduce their ammunition (maybe he does, but government moves at a snails pace, got any logical explanations as to how he managed that so quickly)? It makes far more sense to believe that with retail sales in the toilet, company’s cutting back for the bottom line including makers of ammunition predicted (wrongly) their sales would tumble and rather than sit on an abundance of unsellable assets they reduced production, thus resulting in reduced supplies as public fear (as history dictates most often happens in times of hardship) violent neighbors (as most of you have proven) makes for good gun sales.

The problem with shouting secession and civil war from the rooftops is you come out looking more ignorant than the one you are trying to speak against. President Obama has charted his own course of failure most of it without any help from the conservative movement. Yet again with this Olympic committee he was so sure of his own celebrity status that he was sure to bring home the gold for his “hometown” (we all know he wasn’t born or raised there). Not only did he fail to be so glamorous to the rest of the world. Chicago (by default America) was the first one out. Unfortunately for him America was watching, and quite frankly I doubt any of us are happy about using Air Force 1 on the taxpayers dime for such flagrant excursions.

He promoted a stimulus that raised the deficit by almost 800 billion dollars claiming 600,000 new or saved jobs by the end of summer. Well we lost 300,000 last month (and that doesn’t include the 3 months prior) so he is yet again caught by his own lie.

As candidate Obama he promised campaign reform, then went on to turn down public funds and generate and spend exactly as he saw fit to get what he wanted.

Then there are the off-teleprompter comments like “Bitter southernors clinging to their guns and religion” or “Retard bowling” or “Police officers acting stupidly”. Think he would have figured out after the first one to stick to the script.

Then there is the debacle of the governor (which he supported 110% in getting elected) selling his vacant senate seat or the preacher whose congregation he spent the last 20 years in but had no idea what the sermons were about.

The list goes on and no doubt the latest healthcare gaffe will be another notch on the history books of the rise and fall of President Obama.

Now with all the humiliation the man brings on himself, why is it that any of you feel the need to personally take on the role of blasting the guy out of the water? The election was a farse, McCain wouldn’t have been any better (he voted for the same bailouts Obama did) and Hillary…well haven’t we had enough of the Clintongate? Simply there was no one to vote for. That is the real tragedy and throwing more stones will not likely fix that.

Voting is the civil answer. Being an informed voter, know what you are voting for and what you are voting against. Don’t just pay attention to the last 365 days someone is in office, pay attention to everything from day 1. Don’t just believe what politicians tell you when bond issues come up. Logically if you pass bonds to spend more money without a surplus to cover it your taxes are going up, some mysterious entity from the state or feds will not be along shortly after passage to pick up the tab. We may just have to do without some things. What a concept.

October 4, 2009 1:10 PM | Link to this

Thank goodness President Obama has broad shoulders so all that is wrong in our lives and this country can be placed there. Where were you the last 8 years or 10-12? Did you even vote in the last election or plan to vote in the next one? I agree the “pickins” were slim, but promoting fear and hate mongering imo is ludicrous. In this great country we ALL want what we want when we want it with no responsibility attached. again, jmo

October 4, 2009 1:14 PM | Link to this

‘Proud Dem’ - it’s people like you that make me want to jump in the car, head out to Academy, & buy all of the 9mm ammo that I can get my hands on. The reason there are supply & demand issues is because your Dear Leader, Mr. Commie-Crat, has scared everyone to death. Some people in America are sick of being taxed out the wazoo, while others just sit back & enjoy a free ride. My dumbocrat friend, when the “free ride” folks start wanting more than just my tax dollars - when they’re in my home or on my property, helping themselves - that’s when my 9mm & all that ammo will come in handy…’cause I’m gonna blow the free-loaders back to the Stone Age.

October 4, 2009 1:24 PM | Link to this

stop & Think: President Obama has been in office since Janurary. Did you just start paying taxes then? Dang, I have been paying taxes all my life. I am sure Academy would love your business as any retailer would these days, but then again I guess that is Obama’s fault. Let me make one think CLEAR, I am NOT a freeloader, NEVER have been and NEVER will be. I think MSM had alot to do with the fear mongering, it sure got your feathers ruffled…lol

October 4, 2009 1:46 PM | Link to this

‘LoyalOne2’

As far as I’m concerned, any Democrat is a freeloader. Any person who supported OsamaBama is a freeloader. Give up your rights & guns if you choose…that’s what blind sheep tend to do. I’m keeping mine, whatever it takes.

By ProudDem

October 4, 2009 1:55 PM | Link to this

Stop & think- yes that is EXACTLY what is going to happen. The hard working “freeloaders” that are working two jobs while raising their children are going to storm your house and take your precious belongings. Do you actually know someone that is on welfare? Because the people that I know that are on government assistance are very hardworking people that just need a little help. All of the people I know that are on government programs have children that they are trying to make a better life for. Are the children just suppose to go without?!?! At some point you have to stop being so selfish and self-centered. PEOPLE LIKE YOU make me absolutely sick. It is PEOPLE LIKE YOU that is what is wrong with this country. It is PEOPLE LIKE YOU that are the reason we will country will continue in a spiral that was started by our president’s predecessor. We will continue to be behind all the other developed counties in education and health care until PEOPLE LIKE YOU stop and start to think about someone besides yourself. There are places for people like you…it’s about 40 miles north of here.

October 4, 2009 2:26 PM | Link to this

Texas Citizen and Stop and Stink:

You are both on the border of treasonous speech. I hope to read a story in The Lufkin Daily in the near future regarding two local fellows that found themselves arrested and sent to prison for the hateful rhetoric you two clowns are promoting.

October 4, 2009 2:28 PM | Link to this

Stop&think: I would be laughing, but I actually think you are serious. Opinions are like noses we all have one and yours leaves me speechless as I really can’t believe in this day and time there are people that CHOOSE to blame everything on the Democrats. Now that is Tooooooooooo funny.

October 4, 2009 4:44 PM | Link to this

Treason and sedition seem to be running rampant in the country at the moment.

Stop and Think I don’t even really know what to say to you, but the supply and demand issues started well before January 2009. The president, perhaps, added to it, but by and large the people added to it more. He doesn’t know how to fix this and was riding the same high that got him elected. Most all of us would have done the same in his position. It took years and several presidents to get into this mess, and will take years and probably several more presidents to get out of it. That just won’t be good enough for the entitled American public now will it, because it isn’t the quick fix, the right here and now most of us have grown quite accustomed to. That’s life. Shooting your neighbors won’t exactly make for a good long term solution either.

That is the philosophy isn’t it…first it was blame it on the Republicans or more aptly their fall guy GWB, now it is blame it on the democrats and their fall guy. It’s really our fault, our behavior, our spending, our have to have mentality, but we did survive the American revolution, civil war, reconstruction, prohibition, the great depression two world wars and countless others. This too shall pass.

October 4, 2009 5:22 PM | Link to this

This too shall pass…I so hope so. Only if we quit the blame game and except responsibilty for our actions. We are stronger than we think and I for one think if we pull together we can accomplish more. jmo

October 4, 2009 5:22 PM | Link to this

October 4, 2009 8:06 PM | Link to this

To Proud Dem, Ben Franklin:

You two liberal nutjobs are the best example of what’s wrong with America. You both think you’re entitled to something that belongs to someone else. Wrong! You two Obama lovers probably wouldn’t know how to hit a lick at a snake, if your life depended on it. “Helping hand”, my a##! I’m sick of helping! Most of America is sick of helping! Know why???? Because it never stops! All that people like you want is more and more and more help! Go out and get you a real job, pay some taxes on your hard earned income, & we’ll see how much you like supporting all of the deadbeats in the USA. You two low-life grubbers make me sick! It’s idiots like you two that are the reason why we have the second amendment! People like you will ruin the country! Giveaway programs for all! Everybody stick their hand out! That’s you!!! Sick Sick Sick!

By tom bailey

October 4, 2009 8:37 PM | Link to this

the only part of the economy obama has had any success at all in helping is the firearms and ammo industry. this all over a very real fear that he will attempt to disarm the citizens of america the way the nazis and facists did. otherwise this marxist america hating failure has blown it all around. the iranians are useing the loser for a doormat. the eurotrash in copenhagen totally snubbed the loser in his bid to let his fellow corrupt chicago socialists cash in on the olympics. failure after failure

By Laughing Stock

October 4, 2009 8:47 PM | Link to this

How did so many rednecks end up in the same town? I’m guessing that most of you bumkins in Lufkin were born and raised here. They must have been raised on ignorance and prejudice. They need to build a 9’ fence around the loop to keep you crackers from leaving and breeding outside of the city limits. If ignorance is bliss then the town of Lufkin must have the happiest people on earth.

October 4, 2009 9:27 PM | Link to this

Yep! Born & raised here! And yes, we are happy! The only thing that would please us more is for all of the yellow bellied, handout loving, welfare grubbing, Obama following, stupid liberal sheep to catch the first train out! Yee Haw!

October 4, 2009 9:42 PM | Link to this

And what exactly did Mr. Bush do stop and think to curb welfare abusers? What has any republican done to reform that system? The system abusers I have the privilege of knowing were given more benefits and better access to higher education than I ever thought about getting in the Bush years. Not that I am against advanced learning, it is the fact that while I was using all of my disposable income (even that wasn’t nearly enough) to pay for my own education I sat through class with people whose only credit in life thus far was their ability to reproduce, and most of them not actually there to obtain a degree of any sort, but to retrieve the Pell grant money that would be doled out to them at the end of the semester that was not used on tuition and books, all under the Bush administration.

I agree proud Dem is a bit confused on the way welfare actually works. Someone who worked 2 minimum wage jobs would make too much money to qualify for welfare. The system is abused and with each new generation more and more lining up for handouts not help up. I have seen many who work cash jobs under the table so uncle sam will continue to feed their children while they spend their cash on luxuries for themselves. The main problem at this point is that in order to reform the system we need jobs to get them out of the system. Bush didn’t address that issue and Obama isn’t likely to either, the reason being until we pay China back in full and stop the continuous tap of loans we can’t very well do what is necessary to get our jobs back here. China and its affiliated countries won’t exactly benefit greatly by Americans producing the goods they use in their own country.

Laughing stock, you have judged an entire community based on what? a few posts, a few of it’s unsightly members. Pay attention this isn’t just a local problem. Fear mongerers are running rampant across the entire country. Look at the national townhalls. Look at the congressmen themselves, even the president cannot refrain from making rude, uneducated and at times prejudicial comments. It is an epidemic far worse than H1N1. Manners seem to be a thing of the past in this country. As you have stood in judgment of total strangers, thusly you’ve already proven my point.

Tom, you left out that you will defeat us. I almost didn’t recognize it was you without that.

Loyalone2, you are right. Division can serve no purpose other than our own failure. Accepting responsibility or helping thy neighbor just doesn’t seem to be in fashion anymore. It seems when people set their way on hateful narrow minded paths, there is very little anyone can do to alter that line of thinking. The media seems to feed into it as well. I don’t know if it is to sell newspapers or if the powers that be just agree with the idea that war is the answer, but what was the point of an article about reduced ammunition availability? They’ve cut down on the available sugar free food items in the “newly rededicated” walmart too, but I didn’t see any articles about that. It seems the only point in an article like that was to stir up controversy and blame for the president.

By Vagrant

October 4, 2009 10:13 PM | Link to this

Concerned Taxpayer: I’m not a total stranger to the Lufkin ideology. It is based on a backwoods view of the world. It is based upon establishing a theocracy at the intersection of HWY 59 and Denman surrounded by a loop. I have never seen a community of closed minded individuals as exist in Lufkin. They don’t want change or strangers invading their fiefdom. They may be a micrcosim of what is going on in the U.S. but that is no excuse for creating hate and fear because of who is President and who is not President. I find very few that don’t share the views of Stop & Think and darthraider. Downtown is a joke, jobs and industry are fading and anyone with a college education and ambition should leave the area and see that the rest of the world is not stuck in the past and afraid to make adjustments for the future. The more things change here the more they stay the same and that Taxpayer is a crime within itself. All of the so called Constitionist need to read that portion of the Constitution that reads “to promote the general welfare” before they march around as bully’s raising their homemade signs and waive their American flags trying to defeat health care reform.

October 5, 2009 9:38 AM | Link to this

Stop and Stink:

You don’t know a thing about me yet you continue to assign all manner of unsavory characteristics to my person simply because we have fundamental political differences. Your assumptions highlight your pathetic ignorance.

I work hard. I pay my taxes. I vote. Meet your opposition, Stinky, it’s people like me that are sick of the republican party and their favoring of corporations over citizens. People like me that believe in the First Amendment for everyone, not just religious zealots. People like me that are fed up with attempts to cram religion down our throats. People like me who believe in science over faith in mythology. People like me who believe that might doesn’t necessarily make right and that blowing our treasure fighting a war that had nothing to do with 9/11 in the name of war profiteering for companies like Halliburton and Black Water is tantamount to treason.

I stand behind my vote for Barack Obama and I’m willing to give him more than nine months to deliver on his campaign goals. I didn’t have any delusions that he would come in and everything would be rosy. It’s taken years for the economy to get to this dire condition. Concerned Taxpayer made many great points in reference to that above. I would add that the deregulation under Reagan and NAFTA under Clinton went a long way to adding to the problems. More regulation and axing NAFTA would be two great ways to start getting things back on the right track. Any company that outsources should become pariahs and we as Americans should treat them as such. It’s UNAMERICAN to ship jobs overseas and it just keeps happening. Of course Republicans want to coddle the traitors. How unsurprising of course they can always pray about it now can’t they? Too bad ignorance isn’t painful.

By ProudDem

October 5, 2009 12:35 PM | Link to this

Stop & think I have never been on any kind of government assistance. I think they would probably laugh at me if I tried to apply. I have always had a job since I was old enough to work. My husband and I were hard, pay our taxes, and help our friends and neighbors when we can. Your ignorance is truly astonishing. Concernedtaxpayer, I’m not ignorant to how the system works. I was referring more to people that work a regular job and then do odd jobs on the side like cleaning houses, providing child care, and lawn work for cash. The people that I know that do these things do not do them so they can buy a new flat screen but simply to be able to afford schools clothes, school supplies, and other basic necessities of life. Is there abuse in our system? I’m sure of it. Does it help many families? Absolutely. Our system is far from perfect, but I would like to think it does prevent some people from falling through the cracks.

October 5, 2009 2:27 PM | Link to this

The old liberal yellow dogs sure are barking! I would love to stop and waste my valuable time with a long, drawn out response to you two socialist skunks, but I must get back to work…so I can pay taxes to support the do-nothings & spend what’s left on ammo to protect my assets from the Obama-sama’s of the world. :-)

By BLAADE

October 5, 2009 3:54 PM | Link to this

FACT #1: NOT PUBLICIZED - This year, ALL AMMO MFG’s have had Gov’t demands stepped-up to ABSOLUTELY RIDICULOUS AMOUNTS for Ammo via a clause in their GSA CONTRACTs which says, in so many words “When we want more AMMO, we SHALL GET IT - ELSE U LOSE UR CONTRACT WITH US, BY DEFAULT. NO APPEALS PROCESS, NO B.S.!!”

Well, all of sudden they’re ALL running 24x7 trying to fulfill GOVT OBLIGATIONS!!

NOW we “civilians” run dry… and will CONTINUE TO UNABATED - YES, WITHOUT AN END - until the Govt’ stops “DEMANDING”. “No conspiracy there,” U say, “cause we ARE fighting a WAR, u know.”

EXCEPT: the “STEP UP” only occured in late ‘08, and yet again Q1 ‘09 -as AMMO Mfg’s will attest (confidentially, of course, cause the very nature of these Contracts are supposed to be held “close to the chest”!)

?? “Why NOW?” one MUST ask! When we have a Pres. who is sworn to “DE-escalation” of ALL WARS - and in fact IS!

Why is the Govt STOCKPILING TOO?!!! What’s ‘THEIR’ SUDDEN, URGENT NEED! I smell a RAT, and its coming from the GOV’T… know what I Mean?!!

We KNOW: DONT TRUSAT THE GOV’T!!

THERE WILL BE “NO” LET-UP OF AMMO SHORTAGE, cause the GOV’t HAS IT ALL!!!! And will CONTINUE TO… no Conspiracy there (except by the GOVT) - just FACT!

By BLAADE

October 5, 2009 3:55 PM | Link to this

Well, all of sudden they’re ALL running 24x7 trying to fulfill GOVT OBLIGATIONS!!

?? “Why NOW?” one MUST ask! When we have a Pres. who is sworn to “DE-escalation” of ALL WARS - and in fact IS!

Why is the Govt STOCKPILING TOO?!!! What’s ‘THEIR’ SUDDEN, URGENT NEED! I smell a RAT, and its coming from the GOV’T… know what I Mean?!!

We KNOW: DONT TRUST THE GOV’T!!

THERE WILL BE “NO” LET-UP OF AMMO SHORTAGE, cause the GOV’t HAS IT ALL!!!! And will CONTINUE TO… no Conspiracy there (except by the GOVT) - just FACT!

October 5, 2009 4:03 PM | Link to this

Socialism (def.) -

The stage in Marxist-Leninist theory intermediate between capitalism and communism, in which collective ownership of the economy under the dictatorship of the proletariat has not yet been successfully achieved.

Seems to me…that’s about where we are. Keep following the Dear Leader!

October 5, 2009 8:14 PM | Link to this

You know some of us are trying to have a grown up conversation, and seems all you can do is attack attack attack. You chastise anyone who acknowledges even the slightest support for our president. Do you not think that if there had been anything better to vote for American would not have picked it? Honestly of the 3 top contenders just which one exactly do you think would been the all mighty savior the public wants? All three voted for the spending bills together. You keep on with your definitions and wanting to shoot your neighbors. Must be a terrible weight indeed believing the taxes you pay support every freeloader in this country. Guess what I work too. I’ve never gotten a dime from the government.

It may indeed help one family out of 10 or even out of 100 Proud dem, but on this current path there is no road to sustainability. The nonworkers are fastly outgrowing the workers. There is no way to continue borrowing money to support these programs (in addition to the new handout programs cash for clunkers, cash for appliances, and cash for civic centers apparently). I spent a good deal of my studies in economics and accounting classes and financially there is just no way. These people are bargaining their livelihoods on China’s generosity. Quite frankly I don’t believe so much that Hillary will always be able to get that next 100 billion dollars we need to continue doling out. What happens if they say no?

Not that I endeavor to respond to treasonous rhetoric, but if there is some government conspiracy to reduce our ammo while stockpiling their own I can honestly see the need for it. Seeing what people in my very own community are saying about shooting their neighbors (and you all seem quite serious about the prospect) for disagreeing with them, well I should very well hope the government I pay taxes too wouldn’t just sit idly by while people running on fear take to acting as judge, jury and executioner and take up shooting their neighbors or anyone they deem unfit.

So if you don’t want the government to prepare for an intervention, do not go on spouting off at the mouth thereby making one necessary. Though I’m quite sure yet again the people that thought is aimed at will lack any sort of decorum to acknowledge their own misgivings.

By Hooked on Fear

October 5, 2009 10:00 PM | Link to this

The previous administration did a great job of one thing—motivating through fear. The responses to this article certainly reflect this trend. Mr. Franklin—and OH do we need him now!—I agree wholeheartedly with your comments. I think the reason so many non-right wing fanatics in East Texas don’t speak up publicly is they are sick of hearing the hate-mongering rhetoric that these fearful folks are always spouting in response to ANYONE who doesn’t agree with them. Rational discussions are impossible with fanatics of any sort.

October 6, 2009 10:33 AM | Link to this

The problem, quite simply, is this: You cannot have a rational conversation with a liberal, especially now - since they feel empowered, due to their man winning the White House. I’m sorry that some of my comments are abrasive & derogatory, but I have totally lost it with the “spread the wealth around” crowd. There is no gray area there. You either support capitalism & free enterprise…or NOT. To me, if you do not, then you are of a pure socialist mindset. Period. Bet the folks out buying ammo are NOT of the socialist mindset. Concernedtaxpayer: You are obviously an intelligent person who puts a lot of thought into what you post here. I agree with most of what you say. I will try to tone it down.

October 6, 2009 11:12 AM | Link to this

Believe me if you knew half of the things associated with my private life you would know I have every reason to be as angry as you are about the system abusers and freeloading behavior. Because I make just slightly above what the government says is poverty, and I made the right choices buying a modest place to live (which I in fact will own outright in 10 months) not having children at all because I cannot afford them, and trying to pursue an education that would afford me and any future family I have a better life while still maintaining a position of accountability for my share of the government services I utilize. At every turn it seems like I was denied for my good choices while others were rewarded for their bad ones. And that really is just the tip of the iceberg, I dislike it and perhaps it does make me just a little bit prejudice against welfare, but it has NOT yet angered me to the point that I can say or even believe I would be willing to shoot my neighbors or anyone for being less fortunate or just being too ignorant to be better than they are. That is their reflection not mine.

The comments have gone way beyond abrasive and derogatory. If it were just you, I probably wouldn’t pay it much mind or even bother addressing it, but it seems to have taken a national tone with the main undercurrent and theme not government, programs or anything else but murder, war and a set dividing line between the citizens of this country. After 9/11 you would think that wouldn’t even enter into anyone’s mind. Fighting amongst ourselves leaving the entire country open to attack from foreign nations who’ve long been upset with our style anyway. Our unity (not the constitution or any other document is what founded this country) our ability to come together as one despite our many differences. Reform of almost every program we have is necessary, but is genocide and absolute abandonment of the principals we were founded on the best way to accomplish that?

Those who ignore the past are doomed to repeat it. I think we have done a pretty good job of that already.

October 6, 2009 11:42 AM | Link to this

We all have the right to vote for whoever we want. Threatening violence against your fellow citizens for exercising their right to vote is pretty messed up. Even a simpleton such as yourself should be able to see why that’s wrong.

Your problem, Stinky, is that you attribute all the negative and cynical crap you absorb from Rush and Beck to liberals. Even those buffoons heap it on your republican party from time to time. If you want to talk rationality and reason you’re going to have to give up your conservative ideology because the base of your beliefs rest on religious mythology.

Our economy has always been a mix of capitalism and socialism. The preamble of The Constitution says, “We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.”

You idiots at the flounders alliance would do yourselves a favor by actually reading the document you claim to revere. Of course simply reading words you don’t understand won’t do you a whit of good. It all goes back to your blatant ignorance as evidenced by the hate you post. The conservatives posting on these forums are too stupid to be lamenting the lack of rationality.

October 6, 2009 1:58 PM | Link to this

This is a great example of how liberal dumbocrats twist words around. People absolutely do have a right to vote for whoever they choose. I have never proposed shooting anyone, based on their vote, Fruitloop. I will, however, defend my property if necessary. Guess what…it’s my right to do so. I’m sure that angers you, but that’s the way it is - until your president & the other anti-gun loons go after the second amendment. I hope I never have to defend my property, as I prefer not to shoot anyone!

Now, Mr. Fruitcake Franklin, what about all of the “hate” that you liberals spewed when Bush was president? It’s ok for you whackjobs to spout off when a Republican is in office, but conservatives can’t do the same when a Dem holds power? Think again buddy.

Religious mythology? That may be the way you look at religion, but for many it’s not. Perhaps you shouldn’t be so quick to lump conservatives & religious people together. Many conservatives never attend church or even claim to be Christians.

October 6, 2009 2:23 PM | Link to this

Every post you make, Stinky, the more you reveal just how borderline retarded you are.

I have espoused my support for the second amendment here on these forums on numerous occasions. What part of that do you not understand? All liberals I know support the second amendment. It’s liars such as found on Fox News that claim liberals want to take away guns. It’s a lie.

I never “spouted hate” for President Bush. In fact, once he was sworn in I fully supported him as president. I had my political differences, naturally, but never did I resort to the hate that you and your ideological buddies are leveling at the current president. Basically what you’re saying is that you’re going to get even with all the liberals that you perceive spoke hatred of Bush by doing the same with President Obama. That’s not a very mature attitude but I wouldn’t expect you to act appropriately for your age. You’ve demonstrated time and time again that you’re incapable of being civilized.

Religious mythology, indeed, and guess what, buttercup, it’s my First Amendment right to ridicule yours or anyone’s religion. How old were you when you stopped believing in the tooth fairy? How about santa and the easter bunny? Whatever age you were when you stopped believing in those myths was the same age you should have started seriously questioning the invisible cloud being that gets mad when people have fun.

You obviously have a problem identifying exactly what you are, Stinky. Are you conservative? If you don’t buy into their religious fantasies you better keep it to yourself. Are you Republican? If you don’t agree with corporate welfare you better keep that to yourself as well. The problem with the republican/conservative dichotomy is that they’re both fatally flawed ideologies from the get go and the marriage of the two is nothing short of dysfunctional and destined to failure. Trust me, I understand why you people are so frustrated and angry and if you could get over your prejudices and hate you might find that the democratic party, as imperfect as it may be, is actually where your interests reside. Of course we don’t want a bunch of hateful rednecks in the party so ya’ll gonna have to get over that first, of which I have absolutely no faith you lot can do.

October 6, 2009 3:15 PM | Link to this

LOL!!!! I never believed in the tooth fairy, you dumba##. Santa or the Easter Bunny, either. Funny!!!! LOL!

There you go again linking conservatives & religion together again. Has some preacher out there hurt you or member of your family? Were you sexually abused by a priest at some time in your life? Why such hatred for people of faith? You are a true case of the pot calling the kettle black, where “hate” is concerned.

Not that it’s any of your business, but I never voted for Bush, 41 or 43. They were two of the stupidest people that ever lived in the White House, in my opinion. The war in Iraq was a joke, & a total waste of tax dollars, not to mention a total misrepresentation of facts, forced on the American people. To continue, I’m not a part of organized religion, either. I think most of these massive churches that sprawl out over acres & acres, are nothing more than some of the biggest taxfree businesses in America. I think they should have to pay taxes just like everyone else. Some of the preachers are the biggest crooks & hypocrites in town, as well.

See, not everyone fits into a certain little mold. We can all find parts that we can relate to - in a lot of things.

October 6, 2009 3:23 PM | Link to this

Bad idea really, as if the conversation isn’t bad enough lets point it towards religion. Who really wants to debate whether it is mythology or not? It really isn’t pertinent to any conversation though I believe in this country as well as world wide governments should be free from religious decision making as government by its very nature has to be inclusive of everyone.

From what I read about Stop and Think’s opinion on the Founder’s alliance i don’t think he thought well of that group either. I could be wrong on that one.

He, like so many of us, is just really tired of breaking our backs for people who don’t lift a finger to help themselves much less contribute to the betterment of our society as a whole. The democrats just seem to be content to continue on with the runaway spending and now they are considering a healthcare bill that has the potential to either cost me my health insurance (as my employer will now be given a choice to pay part of it or pay a fine, and the fine is cheaper) or they will tax me for having it so that once again people who don’t contribute will be provided insurance. They are outright lying about what the cost is, or giving a complete accounting of where the money is coming from. And McCain wanted to gamble social security on the stock market. It really is a sad thing for America that out of all the contenders we didn’t really have anyone worthy of being elected at all.

Personally I think both parties are wrong. But I really don’t want to face a future of waking up each day wondering if I will have to take up arms against my neighbor, so I am finding the liberals less repulsive than the conservatives at the moment. I really don’t find corporate welfare to be more endearing than public welfare. Their methods are wrong, but they keep each other balanced and that is part of the reason I voted republican. I believe if congress is democratically controlled we are better off having a conservative president and vice versa. Then they either have to formulate some sort of agreement or nothing gets done either way we benefit more from that than one group steamrolling over another.

By Vagrant

October 6, 2009 3:38 PM | Link to this

I love the smell of burning right wing extremest flesh in the morning.

October 6, 2009 5:37 PM | Link to this

Stop&Think comments are just that, comments. Let’s put all our energy into the blame, fear and hate game. The MSM has taught you well. This has gotten so off topic is has become ridiculous. The LDN should be very proud of this story. That is if you believe everything you read. Thanks concernedtaxpayer for trying to have an intelligent debate on this issue. Sometimes you just can’t fix stupid.

By Jackie

October 6, 2009 6:18 PM | Link to this

I don’t give a rats * anyway. I will have and hold my weapons close to me at all times, and when Obama starts to sign laws into effect, is when I will watch the sparks fly. What is Obama really trying to do, anyway? Freedom to own a weapon is an American civil right…and well, like myself, people of Texas, load your own!

I even play around a little with the “hollow-points” on the slamming end of the .9mm, .44 magnum, and .357 rounds I have. Works great if you know what you are doing. But my intentions do not involve killing anyone. I use it as sport target practice on dead pigs and other targets. Blows the living hell out of things.

Load you own, folks…no need to run to the store anyplace and be refused handgun ammo. The Prez will justify this as simply a means to curb crime. Ya…right. Tell me a story I can believe in…just like his “change”!

By Jackie

October 6, 2009 6:32 PM | Link to this

B the way…I unanimously agree that ‘concernedtaxpayer’ is always spot-on in all her/his comments. I wished I was as smart! This person ought to write books for a living. Seems to have all the right answers to things. Sure keeps things in perspective! Don’t ‘cha just love it?

October 6, 2009 9:12 PM | Link to this

Thank you for the well-wishes. I don’t have all the answers, and the way in which I’ve arrived at my conclusions on life, religion and all things political were hard, impossible at times and not especially a life I’d really wish on anyone. I was young once, stupid, carefree and driven by selfishness at times. By most standards I’m still young. By my standard I’m not at all where I wanted to be at 30.

I can’t cure stupid, but I have for sure spent a great deal of time trying. That’s the saddest part of it, neither Ben nor Stop and Think are stupid. When they want to they are quite capable of coming up with some very educated and insightful discussions. They react to each other with hostility and outward insults because they don’t listen, assume too much about the other, and think this is some sort of duel. It’s really just a blog. I address them because I believe in their ability to recognize their own faults unlike Tom Bailey. My experience with that poster has been repeatedly unpleasant, and other than calling him on a direct lie I choose not to address him at all. If I believed for a minute they were in that same category I’d file 13 the two of them and just carry on the topic with the rest of you who seem more capable of expressing your thoughts and respecting others.

I’m a good shot so a shortage on ammo just doesn’t affect me all that much. Hit what you aim at the first time, but I still don’t believe it’s a government conspiracy (they just aren’t really that capable) it is more a supply and demand issue. With hard economic times and job losses almost every business is cutting back on their products.

The LDN printed this to stir up controversy, either to sell newspapers or to promote yet another extremist conservative conspiracy theory movement. There is what we should be angry at, media manipulation of the public. You could have also included other products where supplies have dwindled drive around town anyone noticed most of the car dealerships are looking pretty sparse? Not nearly as packed with products as they used to be. Considering we generate revenue off their appraised inventory seems to me that should have been included. I love talking with the people in town (even though I have no idea who any of you are) but it really goes against my nature to support such a biased newspaper.

October 6, 2009 9:47 PM | Link to this

Very well stated, as always, ‘Concernedtaxpayer’. You’re the best! Maybe you should write that book. Put me down for the first copy. I have nothing against ‘Ben’, as I do not know who this person is. I do totally disagree with his political views, however, for reasons i’ve stated in prior posts. I will never change his mind; he will never change mine, but i’m willing to bet he’s an ok guy. He’s committed to his beliefs, & I will always admire anyone who is, even if I may totally disagree. He’s an excellent writer & puts a lot of thought into his posts. He’s obviously intelligent & expresses himself much better than I could ever possibly hope to.

October 6, 2009 10:24 PM | Link to this

It’s a good note this one has gone to. Definitely makes me laugh. With all the posts I’ve written over the last 9 or so months I feel like I’ve already written a book. Ben is an allright guy. I would probably vote for him. I about fell out of my chair to hear you say it, but he is.

It’s been suggested I should run for office and now I should write a book. Well let me put those ideas to rest, I’m too poor to do either one, but I LOVE conversing with you all and would choose that anyday. Looking forward to the next one.

By Spook6

October 7, 2009 12:25 AM | Link to this

I’m a firearm enthusiast and I’ve been watching the gun & ammo business over the last year and as I talk to people, read news articles, surf the internet, etc., I’ve wondered, what is everyone afraid of and what are they preparing for? Some are afraid of a breakdown in society, others are afraid of increasing crime, others of a foreign invasion, and many aren’t really sure what they’re afraid of. One thing is certain, there’s a wave of fear sweeping the nation and people are arming themselves. Here’s some food for thought. People are sensing something dangerous but its not the typical threat. May I submit a theory: its an invasion of exterestial alien greys! According to some reports, alien greys can be destroyed by bullets. For most people, firearms are your only defense against these alien beings. With all the UFO stuff that’s gone on over the last 75 years, something is brewing!

October 7, 2009 9:52 AM | Link to this

I suppose it is now incumbent upon me to say nice things about stop & think.

Very well, stop & think I am certain is a stand up kind of man that would lend a helping hand to a stranger without pause.

Stop & think, I can tell, is an optimist in the sense that he believes that our best days are still ahead of us because we are after all, Americans and collectively we have done more good on this planet in our 233 years than any civilization in the history of mankind. I share this mindset and of this I hope that everyone of all political beliefs in this country can agree.

Be it ACORN or The Founders Alliance we are all bound by common blood, the same blood that is represented on Old Glory, blood that has been shed by generations of not only my family but all of our families and part of what makes us all uniquely American.

I say that instead of the divisiveness seen at play around our community by the desire of some to have contracts signed to trumpet a shared ideology and the exclusion of dissenters that refuse to lock step to that ideological drum of war that we put aside the childish bickering, the cold rhetoric of division, and the hateful venom that has been flowing so freely and instead do what you have witnessed right here in this thread and find common ground and fellowship and brotherhood under the auspices of liberty and unity that we all are Americans regardless of differences and show a kind hand to our fellow citizens instead of the clenched fist of partisanship. E Pluribus Unum.

By Jackie

October 7, 2009 3:30 PM | Link to this

Ben is a RAT! Remember the flick? But, in his/her comment above, ‘Spook6’ entered some interesting points. Oh, yes, you too, ‘concernedtaxpayer’, my girlfriend if you happen to be a girl; sorry guys, I’m unavailable for the male gender.

To me, however, a simple statement will do today on the matter of ammo and weapons; that being it is a right to own one, and not a right to use one illegally. This are where the demarcations come in when we plan or have to consider pointing that thing and pulling back on that trigger mechanism to let a bullet rip! The damage is done, then. But do we all really know what is behind this Administration’s intentions to mandate this rule of law? I really don’t. But assume for a minute the rest of the story…

So we are refused or grossly limited to purchase of ammo; what next? Take a look at the (Terrorists from Islamic countries…or) Mexican drug trade and the related gangsters…they are more well-trained, well-equipped, and more emboldened than the law enforcement agencies on both sides of the border!

Then, these characters can have free run into the US cities and push their products onto drug spokespersons who them sell it down the line…and everyone profits remarkably. With the already allowance of this illegal immigration thing way out of hand, the US white population is grossly outnumbered; this is a Latino society…Latinos are the majority now, and the Bureau of Census can verify this. They outnumber Blacks!

Not to say Latinos are a drug-related society, but with mostly a low-educated, no-job potential, highly South American culture, seems the entire US will someday be in the category of the few other countries who hold mediocre status in the world.

What’s this to do with ammo and weapons? Well, if Obama gets his way, and his over-the-top-literalistic Administration has the voting and process power, the mindset of taking away things from the rich, educated, white and blue collar working society of Whites (and Blacks) will diminish into a society of gangs and a society unsure of itself and then it becomes the “Old West” culture all over again, as history does repeat itself.

I carry a weapon, loaded, legally, with me all the time. I have a reason to do so. And I will use it if need be. I’m not allowing anyone to interfere with my personal and private safety. I don’t plan to get into a gunfight, but as one poster commented above…maybe it was ‘CT’…one shot will do it. Aim well, quick and react.
I know in some states, hoarding ammunition of any kind is against certain laws. But I’m hoarding it! Nobody is forcing their way into my life or home, and taking anything of any value I worked so hard to acquire. No President is going to tell me what I personally can or cannot do under constitutional civil rights, either, without a “cha-cha” or Charter Change, which, may be on the way…just watch out!

October 8, 2009 9:56 AM | Link to this

Ben is a RAT!

What’s that supposed to mean?

On an ammo shortage: people like Glenn Beck are stirring up fear and hate and prompting the racist rednecks to stockpile bullets. Put away the tinfoil hat conspiracy theories.

October 9, 2009 8:35 PM | Link to this

the idea that glen beck is stirring up fear,hate and promoting racism is ridiculous. this guy was harshly critical of bush and the republican party as well. i challenge you to quote even one racist remark made by the man. i certainly wish i would have followed his advice on the economy and stock market last year. the fact that the man does not agree with your political worldview does not give you the right to slander him.

you guys should really look in on the tea parties. you might find you agree with many things they are saying. they want to stop the insane out of control government spending by both parties protection of our right to free speech, the right to protect ourselves with firearms and our other rights now being tread on by the federal government.

i think most of the objection to beck and the tea party is the fact that they are so critical of obama and many people seem to blindly follow this guy who is so very destructive of the usa. we now have the most self destructive executive, legislative and judicial arms of government in american history. it is mostly corruption and moral ambiguity.

October 10, 2009 8:21 AM | Link to this

I have personally looked in on the tea parties and the founders alliance as their outward promotions did seem to align with my own. When their problem solving solutions seemed to validate and include secession and passing out the whitehouse phone number (as if they don’t already have enough to do on the taxpayers dime) as well as the racially profiled discussion right here on the message board. The signs “Afrosocialism” and “Go back to Kenya”, and the biggest bee in my bonnet Tom Bailey this group is honestly just more extremely conservative than the republicans. You can pay attention to that fact or you can not. Any organized group will be self promoting, we already have 2 major political parties who do this a third, fourth or fifth serves no real purpose. The percentages of your group reveal the largest majority to believe that getting back to the constitution means getting back to God.

That is well within your right to practice and to believe, but what that philosophy fails to acknowledge is that this country is ripe with varying religious concepts and all of them do not include getting back to God. This group condemns those people as wrong thus giving you the right to reign power over them until they see the light. They are not promoting freedom and equality to everyone, or even the fact that government should not play a role in the daily lives of individuality thus the fact that while you don’t like government bailouts and what not, most of you have absolutely no problem with denying a woman the right to do whatever she wants with her own body or the right of a homosexual to enjoy the basic forms of matrimony as so freely given to the rest of us.

I do not watch Glen Beck, or anyone else. Outside television was the first luxury to go at my house when prices went up and my income went down. I will speculate that from what I have read of the posters who follow and debate against him my idea of the man is that he has a particular audience of those seated in political unrest. He caters to it as that seems to be his job. His employment is based on his opinion coinciding with that and influenced by a network whose primary function is to gain viewers, sell advertising and increase the bottom line. The opinions and promotion of civil discord would be a product of profit as that seems to be what sells right now.

You’ve really went a long way in your asumptions and did not manage to strike the accord we (widely differing) on here have struck amongst ourselves. You never asked if we had checked into the tea parties, just stated that we should like those of us who are politically active and motivated on this thread would not have already done so.

Because Obama doesn’t agree with your world view doesn’t give you the right to slander him or promote more division within this country. I’m not exactly his staunchest supporter, but do at least critique the things I believe he is doing wrong and engineer a concept of the way I think it should be done right. What plans exactly have you all come up with to run this country better other than promoting God and the constitution?

You may well want to take your own advice and look at the crusaders leading this movement, if you look hard enough you’re going to find they are using the weak minded extremist conservative breakaway republican movement as a means of self promotion to gain political access or further their own power in government. How is that different than the current system?

By Jackie

October 10, 2009 11:49 PM | Link to this

Gee, I guess this limits most of us to firing off paint balls. I like mine in hyper green, though!

October 12, 2009 2:09 PM | Link to this

concerned taxpayer

the founders alliance is certainly not for everyone. no need to insult people by calling them weak minded conservative extremists. the majority of people there are pro life, christian, for small federal government, and against massive unsustainable, irresponsible spending. they are not on board for the murder of humans in the womb for moms convenince, radical homosexual civil rights, massive destructive illegal immigration, viscious racist minority activists and thier ignorant followers, and the hatred of america so popular with the left. the federal government has greatly overstepped thier constitutional boundaries and we are going to do something about it. the calls for succession simply reflect the frustration of hard working americans whose government no longer represents them. those in washington are now eating at our nation like a cancer and we are going to do something about it. if that makes them weak minded in your eyes, then you certainly do not belong there. what surprises me is your own nastiness directed at them. if they want thier own party, then that is thier right.

what we promote is the current system supported by the constitution. the change, the transformation of our system obama and the left talks about is what we are fighting against. we see the change for what it is….the massive tyranical power grab from washington dc that wants to control every part of our lives. the american system of government may be horrible, but it is the best there is on the planet. we dont want to copy every mistake the socialists have made with thier welfare states dependant sheep.

October 12, 2009 4:10 PM | Link to this

I insulted no one. I stated, you proved exactly what I stated to be true.

You cannot say the federal government has greatly overstepped its bounds and in the same thought say that the government you promote is one that denies women the right to their own bodies and homosexuals the basic right of marriage. The government you promote seeks to overstep its bounds as well. Where a government will deny or dehumanize the smallest of rights it will not hesitate to do so on a grander scale.

I am not left, though I can sympathize with their cause they they do not want to be persecuted by religious zealots. I believe you are perfectly entitled to your beliefs, I’m just against the prophecy that you or your group should be allowed to persecute mine. We already have that within the current system.

Is it not amusing with the insulting statements you use about democrats that you criticized me for calling the tea bag and founders alliance preying on the weak minded conservative movement. My words pale in comparison to ignorant (weak-minded is much more polite wouldn’t you say) followers, hatred of America (again projecting while yourself proclaiming secession thus leaving America as an answer).

If you paid attention to the nastiness your group has spewed at me I surmise you would not be so shocked at my undying mistrust towards them. I can (radically or not) assure you everyone that dared disagree with them (as you have proven) received the same treatment. That said I don’t need an education about what you promote you just restated what I had already said you promote which has absolutely nothing to do with issues I am passionate about, and nothing to do with nonpartisanship. The republicans were already on board with all of you so what exactly was the point in creating a new party? In effect it serves to undermine your own cause.

You were the one stumping for us to join the organization, I merely responded as to why none of us have. I never asked that you agree or conform to my opinion or join any organization I am affiliated with.

October 12, 2009 4:47 PM | Link to this

To everyone else we had struck an accord with one another in advancing our steps towards civility and overlooking our differences. I am deeply apologetic that I have fed into this line of discussion and disrupted the good natured flow of that. My only excuse is I found the blatant attempts at recruiting to be disruptive and annoying.

October 12, 2009 5:26 PM | Link to this

concerned taxpayer

people have a right to dislike one another. you have stated your reasons you would not fit in the founders alliance. i personally do believe that marriage is only between a man and a woman. i believe also that a child in the womb is an individual human being with a right to live and the mother has the responsibility to bring that life into the world.
you falsely accuse me of making insulting remarks about democrats. i was refering to the left. both dems and republicans in the beltway have built fiefdoms and use our tax dollars to reinforce thier power with huge irresponsible expenditure. also, all peoples rights should be respected, even the unborn who live in the most dangerous place in america, thier mothers womb. new special rights should not be erected for those who wish to emulate the holy procreative male/female relationship with a parody of it that is condemned by god.
you yourself have been very nasty toward those in the founders alliance. it certainly is nonproductive for both sides of the fence. our back and forth here is nonproductive. i will just keep working to support our cause and peacefully pursue our goals and objectives. i just hope the left keeps it peaceful. with what i have seen of leftist demonstrations i have little hope of such. when i look at history and see what happens with socialists and marxists in power i see little hope of thier being peaceful. they will try physical force and they will start imprisoning people who disagree with them. they are already laying plans to limit free speech, shut down radio and tv conservative talk, indoctrinate children in schools and disarm the populace. the pattern is familiar. we have seen this in history before and it always has been bloody. people today stockpiling weapons and ammunition are simply being prudent and realistic as our forefathers were themselves. our founders knew full well this was what the 2nd amendments main purpose was.

we have already had a massive impact on the nation and to think this only started with a glenn beck show in febuary. we appreciate your critique and patriotic opposition, but we have very basic disagreements that do not seem to be resolvable. we are peaceful and reasonable people but are far from pascifists. as for those who wish to deny us our freedom, destroy our traditions, and destroy this republic to build a slave state……

dont tread on us……

October 12, 2009 6:58 PM | Link to this

Our issues are truly unresolvable as I find no use in contradictions.

I accused you falsely of nothing, and submitted what you said as proof.

Back your claims up of my nastiness with proof, the projection of it isn’t enough. I have addressed the issue of this organization in a far less volatile manner than I have been addressed by them.

I cannot offer any course to change your mind, and do not wish to try. In the future you now know I do not wish to be recruited, my verbage on this matter is now closed as it is no where near the topic of the article put forth to discuss.

October 12, 2009 7:38 PM | Link to this

Why my dear Tom Bailey, you should have just been forthcoming with your identity. I am deeply amused seeing you hide behind a screen name instead of proudly waving your own.

That must have truly been hard not to post we will defeat you. Surely you aren’t cyberstalking me, or is it my profound charm that draws you back.

I had endured even a modest loss at the close of our last discussion and am flattered for the first time to see you address me by the name I give. Miracles can indeed happen. I would not have thought less of you if you had confirmed your opinion respectfully in this way under your own name.

It is a distinct pleasure to see you post without calling anyone a name. My words must have had at least some marginal effect. Very nice to see you again sir, though please do feel free to use your own name, would create far less confusion.

October 12, 2009 8:49 PM | Link to this

Joemama = Jessica Hughes.

Hey, Jessica, America spoke last November. If any group is working to destroy this Nation it’s the far righties such as yourself and the flounders alliance that wish to overturn the will of the American people. There will be another election in 2012 and don’t be surprised when President Obama wins reelection. We’re coming out of the recession and will be in full recovery mode right around the time of the campaign season and the President is going to take full credit for it. Rightly, so. Republican economics don’t work. Never have, never will.

October 12, 2009 9:18 PM | Link to this

you people certainly are concerned about my identity while so hypocritically not forthcoming with your own. you have also verified something i was curious about. who i am might surprise both of and may not be so surprising at the same time. i came in for some discourse and debate and find people wanting to engage in dirt throwing on a personal level. it certainly seems that jessica hughes and tom bailey are truly hated by the two of you. that i am sure is easily earned with with simple disagreements on politics from what i have seen in here with you two.

perhaps ben franklin and concerned taxpayer are one and the same is something i also might speculate ,but i really dont care who you are. why do things like that bother you guys so much? are you just looking for someone to hate?

October 12, 2009 11:23 PM | Link to this

I cared not about your identity dearest. I rather missed your disruptive manner of speaking and thus quite excited to find out it was you.

It is hard to explain, and I cannot swear to the fact that you will completely understand it but in everything there must be balance.

Every superman needs his kryptonite, else there is no true success unless there is also failure.

I never hated you Mr. Bailey. I was angered at the name calling, at the principals and foundations you wish to force upon me. You provide that balance, the missing link to the discussion boards.

Ben and I could be one in the same, but I assure you we are not. If I posted under my real name no one would know who I was as I have become concernedtaxpayer she has become me. I doubt very seriously Ben shares my ideology of you and your posts. It would be a contrast to his nature. You definitely inspire anger in the man.

I had the same reaction to you initially, and again as joemamma the exact same reaction I had to Tom Bailey thus my curiosity and confirmation that you were indeed the same person. Your admission of such matters not to me as we both know you are.

As a newcomer joemamma I was annoyed at having to defend myself and disrupt the flow of unity, but finding out it is Tom Bailey actually shows a sign of improvement within your posts and that is to be admired. Whether you always have a home at the Founders I cannot speculate, but you do always have one here.

Tom you knew we would not be interested in joining, out of personal curiosity why on earth did you even suggest it? I suspect you too derive some enjoyment from our banter. You know me too well, the mere thought of it did provoke a response from me.

My identity is easily obtained from anyone so inclined as to find it out. I have nothing to lose or expose by anyone knowing it. There are quite a few on here who already do know it. Who I am would surprise no one. It would offer no meaning or insight and effect no change. My opinions, my words, my thoughts, life experiences, challenges, obstacles and means to overcome them are all I have to inspire and minimally at best may never be enough. For a public thread I do not know if that is the best outlet for real change to be achieved. Again I enjoy conversing with the public, socializing with strangers and people I may never know other than the comradery experienced here.

No matter who you are, you’ll always be Tom Bailey to me and I welcome the difficult balance you bring to the table.

October 13, 2009 9:59 AM | Link to this

Hey, Joemama, where exactly did I throw any dirt in my post above? I just affirmed to you that your side lost last November. No dirt there, my friend.

I don’t hate Tom Bailey or Jessica Hughes. I don’t hate stop & think, either. I do think that Tom and Jessica, who very well could be the same person, are both politically ignorant and religiously insane. I feel sorry for them for having such small minds. I feel sorry for them because their religious beliefs allow them to be led around as if they had a ring through their noses by the corporate masters of the republican party who could care less about their socially conservative agenda.

It’s easy to pay lip service to religion in order to placate the sheep to get them to support economic policies that favor the wealthy and then knock off down to the white’s only country club and throw back a few martinis before embarking on an evening of fornication. Religious zealots make me ill because they’re as sinful as anyone else then they hide behind Jesus and claim they’re “only human” and continue the same secular lifestyle that they condemn the rest of us for. If their religious beliefs are true they’re going to roast in the hottest fires of Hell for being hypocritical dirtbags. I won’t be having any of your theocracy. There are plenty of opportunities abroad to live under a religious theocrat. I suggest those of you out there that want “God” in everything governmental pack up and move somewhere else because you certainly aren’t Americans.

October 13, 2009 12:03 PM | Link to this

I wonder if that were the case and they are actually FOR a government that dictates and persecutes based on religion why did their ancestors ever leave England? Wasn’t that the whole idea to be free from that sort of reign.

It is remarkable the hatred directed at perceived socialism while in the same breath admitting socialism is exactly what you want just conservative socialism. You admitted you were perfectly okay with the government telling people they couldn’t get married or have medical procedures. Where it is so easy to deny one procedure it could be easy to term yet another one such as tubal ligation or vasectomy crimes against religion or God as we were not brought into this world that way and in a sense having either of those procedures could be seen as killing a baby before it ever had the chance to be conceived. When you start on one fanatical path in government it is entirely conceivable it will take on its own form and begin to deny anything that gets in the way. I believe that is exactly what good king Henry was doing by breaking with the pope and creating a church of his own forcing beliefs on people they did not want or agree with.

Really it would take billions of dollars more to begin legislating the Bible, and I do hope that your new government will bill the churches for such new legislation if you are indeed correct in your asumption your version of socialism will prevail.

I feel sorry for you too as I believe your own narrow mindedness and failure to yield to any path but your own will inevitably be your undoing. I’m not challenging your beliefs as a Christian, but I am challenging how you as a Christian in your teachings have come to the conclusion you have any right to stand in judgment of others to deny them anything. Who died and made you God?

By OLd Timer

October 14, 2009 7:34 AM | Link to this

CT, I’m surprised at you. You’re more radical in your thinking than I had supposed from many of your earlier posts.

October 14, 2009 8:42 AM | Link to this

Most of the last post was extreme sarcasm. In my dealings with Mr. Bailey that is about the only way to address him.

I address government as a business more so in times where the government has more loans than it does money. This group the Founder’s Alliance pervasively irritates me and I admit and apologize when fighting their fire with my own it gets heated. After you’ve been called dishonest taxpayer, ilk, coward and a slew of others I care not to repeat it just gets under the skin.

I’m not attacking Christianity as a belief, it is more the self-professed Christians and there are deep seeded reasons for that. In my volunteer work it literally breaks my heart to show up to do something for human beings that can no longer do things for themselves and with all the churches in town the weeks go by and still there are just a handful of us there doing it. They seem to have plenty of time to attend sermons, or as is the case with this organization hold political rally’s and contract signings, but no time at all to at least aid in some part in taking care of the aged community or building something as simple as porches for the handicap, meals on wheels etcetera. There seems to be a disproportionaly low ratio of volunteers to churches not just in this community but in this country. It does have an effect on me. It absolutely does and maybe I am entitled to a few bad posts in amongst a few good ones. Maybe in your eyes I’m not, but at the end of the day I am only human. I am sorry to have lost your respect, sir, yours was one that was well worth keeping.

By Old Timer

October 14, 2009 9:45 AM | Link to this

You haven’t lost my respect at all, CT. Just an observation. Having followed the postings from some of the people you are referring to, I fully understand both your frustration and your sarcasm. I sometimes feel as if I should lable myself an Independent Coservative Liberal. Most people who “post” here aren’t attempting to help or solve anything: Just mouthing off. I have said before, I am a gun advocate and owner, and my guns are always loaded; otherwise they would only be clubs! But I don’t stockpile munitions for the “Great Uprising”! As for groups such as the Founders Alliance, I’ve found them to be, for the most part, very self serving, seeking only to elevate an individual or two. Not really addressing a need or solution. So FYI: We’re still cool!

By nouseforreligion

October 14, 2009 9:59 AM | Link to this

CT-That’s because a lot of so called “Christians” are hypocrites. Not all mind you, but a lot. They are more concerned with appearances than practicing what they preach. Also, their charity involves being subjected to sermons and “witnessing”. Something else to think about….an athiest or agnostic person who helps out another person because it’s the right & moral thing to do. They aren’t doing it to try a buy a place in heaven.

October 14, 2009 10:16 AM | Link to this

Sometimes the only way to fight fire is with fire. I’ve always been a moderate but found myself labeled a damn dirty liberal when I started criticizing the George W. Bush administration. Much like concernedtaxpayer I didn’t consider myself liberal, rather, I considered myself an independent minded voter that wasn’t locked into any particular party. I voted for Bush 41 the first time. It doesn’t matter though, because when I took issue with W.’s policies I was labeled all the things and more that concernedtaxpayer is being branded. Difference is that happened to me eight years ago and because of the vitriol and hate on the “conservative” side I will never vote Republican again and will always stand in opposition to the goals of the religiously insane and politically retarded neoconservative movement. Fighting fire with fire is the only thing these troglodytes understand. These people consider themselves uber-patriots when the reality is they wish to establish a religious theocracy and that is patently unamerican. The First Amendment is for all Americans, not just you bible-thumpers.

October 14, 2009 1:35 PM | Link to this

I identify very poorly with labels and choose just to refer to myself as an American. The term represents everything I love about this country, who I am and a devout respect for all of those who fought, lived and died for me to enjoy the privileges our modern society provides.

I vote according to what I believe is best for the country as a whole, not that I agreed at all with McCain’s spending habits, but that I did not believe Obama and evaluating the circumstances realized the shift in congress and hatred of Bush (by association republicans) the democrats would have an overwhelming majority in government. In my opinion having one half of the country dominate the other isn’t a good idea, and so I voted more for balance of power than any real change or hope that politicians could somehow overcome the fact that they are politicians.

Even though I freely admit my vote was cast for a Republican, I was still labeled a lefty liberal do-gooder who wanted to take hard working American’s money and give it to ingrates who never intend to work. That label came from self professed Christian conservatives.

At 30 years old I have worked (both volunteering and actual employment) for over half my life (starting at 14). I’ve read my own comments looking for what I might have said to instigate that sort of identification and have found none. Every time I post something it is most certainly always in favor of the taxpayer, the citizens who are paying to sustain our entire economy. One side believes in giving our money away via bailouts and corporate welfare, the other favors handing it out to young people (I do not include the elderly in my welfare analogy) who for whatever the case may be choose not to work and despite minimal or no income choose to have children they knowingly cannot afford. I’m against both, but if I had to choose one then I would favor helping innocent children to fat cat wallstreet CEOs.

It is highly contradictory for these people from the Founders to say they are morally and ethically and legally against abortion. There is no doubt if they had any powers in government they would make the practice totally illegal. Not that personally I think that is a bad thing, but how can they proclaim a legal obligation to force anyone who gets pregnant to have a child when in the next thought stating they would offer no means of welfare to support its nourishment once it were here. What is the intention with that then? One totally contradicts the other as if born to irresponsible parents who lacked means or inclination to provide basic nutrition it would most certainly starve to death or become a ward of the state where we again would assume the role of provider as we are now.

I too am tired of the welfare generation. There are people who need it, those with gross disabilities, the elderly who most of the time simply due to age and circumstance are afflicted with many more health issues than the youth of today require more extensive and often expensive care than the youth of today. It is the young perfectly able bodied lazy I am referring to. I believe that is why this new healthcare policy of requiring the young to subsidize health insurance for everyone will not work. They had the same idea with social security and we see how that went. It is really a multi-part problem in that a lot of them really don’t want to work. Then there is the ongoing problem of more and more American jobs being put out of the country by government regulations that even those who do want to work are finding only minimum wage no benefit employment opportunities. There is no path to sustainability for our welfare system, but there is no means with which to cut it off.

In my opinion the politicians on both sides are failing because their main objective is to continue handing out to the states to appease the outraged public and the only way to do that is by increasing the deficit, in the process of doing so remaining indebted to the countries who now hold most of our jobs.

I thought originally upon reading the Tea Party premise this would be their overall objective course. Then upon actually doing my homework finding out the prevailing theme within that party is as you say to promote a selected few to power and/or promote the idea of secession within this state and further the divide in this country. I freely admit I am just as proud to be born and raised a Texan as I am an American, but thoughts or promotion of secession is anti-American. That is not a solution, just another bad idea promoted by politically active power seeking people. The Founders leader one Jessica Hughes, who evidently isn’t getting enough name recognition with the Tea Parties for reasons that have yet to be declared then comes up with this Christian conservative organization that parades around waving the flag of nonpartisanship while publically bashing everyone who is actually FOR the concept she claims to represent. The LDN seems to be right on board with front page articles to support her in that.

I started posting here because of the garbage spewing, name-calling and general content of civil discord almost everyone who posted on the subjects which most clearly were printed to inspire it. It seemed right that someone should at least try to promote a unity on this very public thread, express solutions, compromise and speak in a way so as to discourage irrational hatred, name-calling and the general lack of manners that has so often offended my morning routine in the past.

I stopped posting for a while as it was not apparent to me that it had really done any good, only to find the problem got worse when no one pointed out the manners issue in a nonconfrontational way. Good people attacking each other basically just because they are mad, frustrated, upset and tired with the way things are going in this country. I’m not in any position to inspire political or economical change in this community or country, but at the very least can try to make the daily routine of reading the paper for myself and the public as factual, honest and polite as it can be.

When fighting with the radical fires of extremism, there is no polite way to respond and thus can only be addressed in an equally radical way, or ignored. I could not ignore the disruption of a civility it took days to arrive at.

October 20, 2009 1:44 PM | Link to this

hey ProudDem, your a complete moron, i would like to see you arrested for un-american activities and thrown in jail for supporting a communist revolution in America. Wake up before its too late.

October 20, 2009 2:04 PM | Link to this

you BenFranklin are part of the problem, YOU VOTED FOR OBAMA, ok your choice, but we are trying to educate you that its people like you that are going to kill our way of life. STOP TRYING TO STAB THIS COUNTRY IN THE BACK. And another thing, you said its messed up to speak out against fellow citizens, i got news for you, if you voted for this commie i DO NOT consider you a fellow citizen. You are the enemy, just like the taliban

October 20, 2009 6:44 PM | Link to this

“Real” American:

Wow. I’ll bet you wonder why people think you’re crazy.

October 20, 2009 6:45 PM | Link to this

who are you, your a nobody,

October 20, 2009 6:52 PM | Link to this

I’m an American that voted with the majority in last November’s election. That’s who I am. You’re a nitwit.

October 20, 2009 6:54 PM | Link to this

yeah, you voted for a loser who hates this country, do you realize that

October 20, 2009 6:58 PM | Link to this

I realize that you mindlessly repeat the lies spewed into your brain by Fox News and Rush Limbaugh. Baaa-baaa black sheep being led to the slaughter by your corporate masters that control the repuglican party. Learn to think for yourself, “real” American.

October 20, 2009 7:05 PM | Link to this

im not a rebublican you idiot you. i dont agree with them either, but their alot better than the commie party formally known as the democrats. Tell me something- what do you think of all the czars he is putting in power that praise horrible dictators like Castro, Mao Tse Tung, Chavez and others?

October 20, 2009 7:15 PM | Link to this

“Czar” is a title bestowed by the media upon appointed executive branch officials since before World War I and it has never been criticized on the scale that it’s being criticized by opponents of the Obama Administration.

Give me some specific examples of “praise of horrible dictators” and I’ll tell you what I think. I don’t know for a fact that there has been any “praise for horrible dictators” actually take place. I suspect that your source is less than credible.

I’m glad to know that you’re not a Republican sheep. I suspect that you’re one of those Flounder Alliance idiots, perhaps one that I’ve already become acquainted with. At any rate, you’re pushing the same neoconfederate ideologies as the mainstream hard-right republicans I’m sure.

October 20, 2009 7:16 PM | Link to this

no comment? thats what i thought, when somebody gives you liberals FACTS you run and hide

October 20, 2009 7:28 PM | Link to this

You haven’t listed any facts, boy. You listed conjecture and didn’t provide any specifics or sources. According to The Washington Post, former President Bush “had 36 czar positions filled by 46 people during his eight years as president.”

Do you even know how many “czars” President Obama has appointed?

As for the “praise for horrible dictators” part of post, I’m sure I don’t agree with everything everyone in the Obama administration believes politically, ideologically, or philosophically. Did you agree with everything everybody associated with the Bush administration believed?

I’m my own person and think my own thoughts and have my own beliefs.

Who are you? I suspect you don’t even know.

October 20, 2009 8:01 PM | Link to this

go to youtube, google, yahoo, whatever and look up these names you DUMMY. Anita Dunn, Mark Llyod, Van Jones, Diane Watson(not a czar but a nutjob commie congresswoman from California) Cass Sunstien, just to name a few go look them up and tell me how you can even sleep at night supporting these people who were appointed by your king Obama you left-wing hack you

October 20, 2009 9:05 PM | Link to this

I’m not doing your research for you. Since you choose not to cite any specifics I’ll assume you’re lying and move on.

This is usually what a conservative means by “listing facts”; A lot of bluster and no substance.

I see you have no response to my question, “do you even know how many “czars” President Obama has appointed?” Again, typical of a “conservative”.

It’s easy to be critical and cynical without offering any alternative solutions of your own. People like you are what’s wrong with the republican party.

October 20, 2009 11:17 PM | Link to this

again your not listening to me you moron. I have done my research, its your turn to do yours, i gave you these list of people where you can go on almost any website and pull up videos of what they are saying, and again im not a republican, im an American, which is more than i can say about you.

October 21, 2009 1:19 AM | Link to this

I’ve done my research and found your claims to be nothing but lies.

I have no interest in trading insults with you, “real” American. In the words of Mark Twain, “Don’t argue with an idiot; people watching may not be able to tell the difference.”

By Old Timer

October 21, 2009 8:32 AM | Link to this

Ben Franklin: To date, the president has appointed 32 “czars”, 25 of them new positions. Many of them extreme left leaning. And you are dead wrong about the liberal assault on gun possession. Every “major” Democrat at the federal level is a supporter of gun control laws. Yes, I understand there are more conservative Dems who are against such legislation, the so called “blue dog Dems”. And I also realize that a huge number of local level folks, like you, who are Democrats are gun ownership supporters. So I will say to you what I have to Vernell Davis from Zavalla: the Democratic party you may have known in the past is not the same party that is in control in Washinton or in many states. It has been taken over through the years by ultra-left thinking politicians, who do want to change this country into a more socialist state. I also believe that the Republican party is not the party it once was, as I believe ultra-right conservatives have tried to control it. In politics, there has to be middle ground and reasonable dialogue. I am personally morally opposed to abortion. But I also know that women are going to have abortions for a number of reasons, many not valid. And I would rather them having quality medical people do them, than going to the “coat hangers and back rooms” they had to endure in my generations past. You and so called “Real American” need to stop with the slurs and aspersions and simply talk!

October 21, 2009 8:47 AM | Link to this

RA, exactly what woodwork did you come out of? We began this discussion almost a month ago now. It seems to me the expression you are a day late and a dollar short would apply. If you were so passionate about this why did you not enter into it on the ground floor?

Furthermore if you are so keen at listening why is it that while you are claiming a nonrepublican status the only issue you took with anyone was the matter of how they voted? You judged and defined them by that vote, and only personally assaulted those who admittedly voted for the democratic candidate. You may be reflective of “real” American’s today in doing that, but it isn’t exactly a compliment now is it?

Voting is the base of our democracy, we each vote the way we believe and are entitled to do so even when we are wrong. (I voted for Bush jr). Things happen. Obama is president, considering the history of the office since he hasn’t actually killed anyone, doesn’t have a drinking problem, has no recorded mistress to date and didn’t have any conflicts with whether he inhaled or didn’t well at least to some degree he is characteristically better than almost all of his predecessors.

What purpose, what good did it do for you to come in on the tailwind of a discussion and start calling names of the posters as if Ben Franklin is the supreme leader of government. At first I thought it mind boggling to that he would have voted for a Democrat, having seen the way conservatives (whether they are republican or not) treat him when he actually supports quite a few of their nonreligious issues I completely understand. You want to know why the liberals had an overwhelming majority don’t go to google or youtube or any of the other sites you listed. Look right here at the political posts on this website in our nice conservative community. Read what the conservatives wrote. Look how many times civil war and shooting their socialist “commie” neighbors came up. Really pay attention unless you are just here to stir things up, then by all means continue.

October 21, 2009 10:34 AM | Link to this

this guy BenFranlin is to lazy to go look up these people i have named, im trying to educate him on exactly what type of man Obama is

By Concernedtaxpayer

October 21, 2009 12:03 PM | Link to this

The way you are going about it I am sure he is all ears. Sarcasm, ignorance and hatred is most assuredly the correct way to go about educating someone. You never even bothered to get to know him. Subsequently he was less inclined to know, listen or try to understand you. How much courage do you think it takes to openly speak about subscribing to liberal ideas in an openly conservative arena? The way most of you (again I am generalizing as not everyone did) jumped on the attack train it’s like a black man showing up to a KKK rally. Really are you that narrow minded you actually believe what is wrong with America today is the liberal half of the country?

Look around they are not the only ones contributing to the social and economic demise of this nation. If I hastily judge the tone and content of your posts it is fairly easy to assume you have your own share of the responsibility for what is wrong with America today. Having gotten to know Ben through the various debacles on here I know he is a very smart man all be it not quite as civic minded as I am he has a much more in depth grasp of politics, business, the people who are in power, what they do and why they do it than I probably ever will. There is no reason for him to debate with you as you have proven, by ignoring most of what was written prior to your entrance, you would not be inclined to listen or speak your disagreements respectfully without laying the demise of an entire nation on the shoulders of one. In the past he has been as emotionally driven with the casting of stones and conservative bashing as you are now. I have spoken to him in much the same manner I have to you. As his posts are marginally improved from what I have seen him capable of I do not care to repeat any further criticism of what he has said.

Why is it so wrong to support a president? I don’t like the man. I supported Bush even though in the end I didn’t care much for his administration either. It is done. The election is over and reliving it on a public thread no matter how many times will not change the outcome. Do you think that all of the betraying will make him more inclined to vote for what? No other party has offered anyone better than what we have. So educate me please just which one might he have voted for that would have sat more in your favor? Then tell me how they could have or would have done any better with this mess we have all contributed to?

October 21, 2009 2:00 PM | Link to this

i have said its both political parties, i didnt vote for McCain either, i voted for Bob Barr just to make a point that im sick of the 2 party system. I also will stand to the death that liberal tolerance has damn near killed this country and that fact you cant argue.

October 21, 2009 2:11 PM | Link to this

I don’t need indoctrinated by the likes of you, “real” American. Tell me, where did you get your information? I’m willing to bet it was Fox News in general and Glenn Beck in particular. Fox News is a propaganda machine for the republican party with no credibility as a news outlet. They’re not a news outlet. Glenn Beck is a self-admitted rodeo clown. You take these people seriously? That’s truly embarrassing.

October 21, 2009 3:35 PM | Link to this

That is a statement not a fact. Facts are what you would use to back up your claim with proof. I can assure you I could most definitely argue against the so called fact that liberal tolerance is the only thing killing this country.

Doing so would prove fruitless in the case of point being to persuade you in listening as you have your mind set against it. Continue with your manner of speaking at people I will continue in my manner to try and speak with them.

October 21, 2009 4:56 PM | Link to this

you 2 dont see my points because your children, let me guess your one of those d******* who vote democrat because your dad and grandpa did as well. I realize i scare yall because im the minority now in the fact that im a 23 year old conservative white male and yall are both hacks

October 21, 2009 5:19 PM | Link to this

You have absolutely no idea what I see or what I don’t see. How could you possibly when you are so blind yourself. My grandpa if you must know served this country for 22 years in both Korea and Vietnam. My great grandpa, just in case you want to bash him too served in the first world war. My father has worked for the table scraps the county is willing to pay him for the last 25 years even though he could have made 10 times more money somewhere else. They have ALL earned the right to vote in any manner of their choosing.

As far as myself I am a 30-year-old independently minded woman who has every ability to think for herself. My vote and anything else I say, do or believe is solely the product of my own independent analysis. You think that you scare me? Rest assured sir with the life I have led nothing you could do would come remotely close to inspiring fear in me.

See your points? if you paid attention you would have already seen that I have made many points opposing the 2 party system and both of the parties in power without irrationally blaming posters for the way they voted. From you I take hack as a compliment.

October 21, 2009 5:19 PM | Link to this

23 year old conservative. That speaks volumes. Go get an education before trying to educate others, boy. I was voting before you were born.

October 21, 2009 5:41 PM | Link to this

just because you were voting before i was born dont mean you know more than me, and as for concernedtaxpayer i respect all that serve our country in war time i myself had a great-grandpa serve in WW2 and my great uncle in Vietnam.

October 21, 2009 5:46 PM | Link to this

BenFranklin, exactly what do you mean when you say that speaks volumes? what kind of education do you have

October 21, 2009 5:59 PM | Link to this

BenFranklin, i want your real name because im sick of you and if you really stand behind your communist ideas you will tell me your name.

October 21, 2009 6:51 PM | Link to this

Well your age tells the story of your outbursts on here. I dislike generalizations, but you are typically representative of your age bracket mine too sadly enough. You could have a college degree by now, whether you do or do not I couldn’t speculate, but that isn’t the sort of education Ben is talking about. They aren’t going to teach you manners, respect for elders or the concept of participation in a rational discussion.

If you don’t want people to pass you off as too young to understand you’ll have to do better than just disrupting with basically nothing constructive to add. I haven’t always been accepted and certainly my age and gender when known have led some to believe I’m a mouthy woman or youthfully ignorant. Do better or not just Ben, but most of the rational people here will just disregard you. He owes you no explanation, name or anything of the sort and you have certainly done nothing to earn one.

October 21, 2009 7:02 PM | Link to this

i dont need to hear your liberal double-talk im not the husband who left you

October 21, 2009 7:23 PM | Link to this

You’re right you’re not even worthy of my giving you the time of the day.

October 21, 2009 10:21 PM | Link to this

“real American” = 23 year old kid from Hudson. If there’s any accurate information in the email address he uses to post comments here his name is “Aaron”. I’ve got more than enough information to figure out who you are, “real” American. Not that I want to. I could care less who you are. You want my real name, do you? What makes you think my real name isn’t Ben?

By Kujo

October 28, 2009 2:16 PM | Link to this

‘WOW’ is all I can say. You’re all incredibly intelligent.